Forum4 => Swimming for my Dad => Topic started by: Merlin on 24 February 2014 09:36:00 PM

Title: The blossoms are fragile
Post by: Merlin on 24 February 2014 09:36:00 PM
Wow, deleted from sustained reaction after a couple of minutes.  Can't imagine why they might be offended by ...

Much as it embarrasses me to interrupt this conceit-fest (you two need to get a room), I note that once again you fools have neglected to renew your hosting package for sustainedaction.

... just saying ... as you were.  yuk.

Not at all confident dumb and dumber will be renewing sustainedaction anytime soon.
Title: Re: Discussing SR in a comprehensively insulting way thread
Post by: Mr X on 25 February 2014 11:10:28 PM
the suprising part is that someone was monitoring that blog enough to delete it in minuites.

sa is still up for me.

realistically, you posted an snarky comment, so what did you expect. there would of been more tactful ways of reminding them. no one would want an post the humiliates them on there own personal blog.

i think senor was an bit sore from the post on genaros hat, but seemed to take it in good sports in the end. if you wanted to not be deleted it would probably be best to try an different tact.

mr x.
Title: Re: Discussing SR in a comprehensively insulting way thread
Post by: Merlin on 25 February 2014 11:30:39 PM
Finally they moved it to another board and posted an snarky reply.  And then renewed sustainedaction, LOL. Nowt so strange as folk.  Seriously I don't mind that they delete what I post, my intention was to point out their negligence and the freaky spectacle they have tuned SR into.
Title: Re: Discussing SR in a comprehensively insulting way thread
Post by: Mr X on 26 February 2014 01:04:02 AM
the freaky spectacle is interested, i highly doubt it is obvious or visible to the participants.

it is weird. there are people who like toy train sets, and they would constantly think about and internet about their model trains, every day.

i would not critic those people. while it is weird and strange to me about their obsession, but so is any obsession. people like what they like, involve themselves with what they like.

while i definatley think sr has taken an turn for the really weird, i just dont know. maybe they are just train enthusiasts. doesnt make it less weird, maybe senor is just autistic and brujo is just a train man.

either way to post on their forum you have to play by their rules, is only fair.

mr x.

Title: Re: Discussing SR in a comprehensively insulting way thread
Post by: ju4o on 01 March 2014 09:00:59 AM
Hi.  "Discussing non-secret business board" is a strange name for a subforum.  Merlin are you trying to undermine the publicity drive by raising all sorts of doubts about what is going on in this forum?

Also, when I first saw this it looked like this


so my natural assumption was that this thread was marked as "deleted" i.e. is not an actual thread.  I think you will agree that was a reasonable assumption.

i.e. I thought you had just deleted a thread started by a robot spammer.

But I must say that speaking to them in Russian is very cool.

Anyway, now that it says "last post by Mr X" I realize this is an actual thread.  But if you want to avoid more people assuming the same thing I did, you might like to rename this thread.

How about "Discussing SR in a completely insulting way thread".

Now, as to actual comment on this thread, here is what I suggest.

I'm not sure if Jeremy realizes you are simply telling him he ought to get Wu to put his (Jeremy's) email address on the hosting contact list.

But I'm also not sure if Jeremy realizes how odd it is of him to say "It's hard to keep track of, because NetSol doesn't send me a bill, nor any notice that a bill is coming due.  That's why it keeps happening.  If the phone or the electric company never billed me, I'd probably forget to pay them too."

He must realize that a company like Network Solutions does send reminders.  I wonder if he is rather embarrassed to admit that he can't actually get Wu to do anything at all.

Wei wu wei = doing not doing.  Or, do not do.  Actually it is a deeply subtle Chinese concept and well worth discussing here.
Title: Re: Discussing SR in a comprehensively insulting way thread
Post by: ju4o on 02 March 2014 02:18:52 PM
wei ~ do, handle, govern, act (Lat. facere) be, network, solve
wu ~ negative, no, not, lack (without credit card) austere, unlifted, acausal

爲無爲 wei wu wei has myriad combinations of meaning ... "network acausal solutions", "finance austerely handled", "lift not finger", "resources dwindle effort"

Therefore the sage manages affairs without doing anything, and conveys his instructions without the use of speech.

All things spring up, and there is not one which declines to show itself; they grow, and there is no claim made for their ownership;

they go through their processes, and there is no expectation (of a reward for the results). The work is accomplished, and there is no resting in it (as an achievement).

The work is done, but how no one can see;
'Tis this that makes the power not cease to be.

Daodejing 2, trans. James Legge in The Sacred Books of the East, ed. F. Max Müller, volume xxxix ( Clarendon Press, Oxford, 1891 )
Title: Re: Discussing SR in a comprehensively insulting way thread
Post by: Mr X on 03 March 2014 02:49:08 AM
Renaming The Thread to insults is not The Best Either.

I dont' Want To Insult Sustained Reaction, there Is No Need For that. I Like S ustained Reaction. So Now Posting In This Thread Suggests I Am Posting To Insult, That Is Not The Case.

MR J, I Think You Are Giving Senor Much too Much Credit.

While I Am Late To The Party, I Will Never Have The Depth of Experience, History And Understanding About SR As You Or Merlin Do, My Opnion Of Senor Is Poor To Say The Least.

The Meanings of Wei And Wu Are Deep And Interesting, Very Nice, But the Man "Senor" is not Those Words as Far as Is Obvious.

He Seems To Be an Perma-Stoned Pothead, Sweat Lodge marlarky hoo-ha, and One Of the Most Dangerous People Types There is - One Who Knows. People Who Know Should Be Avoided. Senor Seems To Know everything There Is about "Spirituality", He Knows The Right Way To Do Things And Live. The Only Right Way. His Way or The Highway. Not Very Enlightented At All. Correct Me If I Am Wrong.

Dave On The Other Hand Is Not Like That. I Dont' See What Dave sees In Senor. But Because He Does Seem To Trust Senor It Gives Me Pause To Doubt My Own View.

While The Potential Of discussing Wei Wu Seems Intersted, To Associated any High Concepts With some Jerk Off Stoner Seems Folly.

I think Merlin Needs To Change The Thread Name, Again.

As Far As Non Secret Business goes, Perhaps Regular Posters Should Be Allowed into The Secret Business, Be Transparent, Why Not.

Mr X.
Title: Re: Discussing SR in a comprehensively insulting way thread
Post by: ju4o on 03 March 2014 11:10:26 AM
Well yes I was joking when I suggested "Discussing SR in a completely insulting way thread"

I didn't expect Merlin would actually do it

Actually I meant that, so far, this thread amounted to nothing more than discussing SR in a completely insulting way.

Now I'm not going to make any suggestion at all and am looking forward with delighted anticipation to see what enchanting name Merlin comes up with.  The blossoms are fragile.

To-day we have naming of parts. Yesterday,
We had daily cleaning. And to-morrow morning,
We shall have what to do after firing. But to-day,
To-day we have naming of parts. Japonica
Glistens like coral in all of the neighboring gardens,
          And to-day we have naming of parts.

This is the lower sling swivel. And this
Is the upper sling swivel, whose use you will see,
When you are given your slings. And this is the piling swivel,
Which in your case you have not got. The branches
Hold in the gardens their silent, eloquent gestures,
          Which in our case we have not got.

This is the safety-catch, which is always released
With an easy flick of the thumb. And please do not let me
See anyone using his finger. You can do it quite easy
If you have any strength in your thumb. The blossoms
Are fragile and motionless, never letting anyone see
          Any of them using their finger.

And this you can see is the bolt. The purpose of this
Is to open the breech, as you see. We can slide it
Rapidly backwards and forwards: we call this
Easing the spring. And rapidly backwards and forwards
The early bees are assaulting and fumbling the flowers:
          They call it easing the Spring.

They call it easing the Spring: it is perfectly easy
If you have any strength in your thumb: like the bolt,
And the breech, and the cocking-piece, and the point of balance,
Which in our case we have not got; and the almond-blossom
Silent in all of the gardens and the bees going backwards and forwards,
          For to-day we have naming of parts.
Title: Re: Discussing SR in a comprehensively insulting way thread
Post by: ju4o on 03 March 2014 11:30:20 AM
P.S. Just to add, I think that Merlin knew perfectly well I was joking.

He does tend to know that kind of thing, now.

Perhaps he saw it as comeuppance for my once having entitled a thread "On The Unexpected Wholesomeness of Cleargreen".
Title: Re: Discussing SR in a comprehensively insulting way thread
Post by: ju4o on 03 March 2014 12:39:33 PM
Title: Re: くちきたない スステインド リアクション
Post by: Merlin on 03 March 2014 10:08:06 PM
Let me know if there are any further requests.  Happy to oblige.
Just want to point out that you are both in possession of the "powers" to modify post titles as you please.

I have long considered that Dave comes across as an aggressive extremist.
Title: Re: くちきたない スステインド リアクション
Post by: Mr X on 04 March 2014 03:08:36 AM
I Do Find It Amusing that The Three of Us Are Sitting Around Trying to Decide the Name of One Thread.

In the End, Merlin, It is Youre Thread So The Name Is Up To You. I Would Not Use any Powers To Ovveride Your Choice.

Thank You For Youre Thoughts On Dave, I Did Not know You Saw Him That Way. I Am Guessing You Cant' Be The Only One.

I think Dave Was Doing Very Well, Setting Up To Be The Worlds Top Living Casta Debunker. He Was Posting Good Things And People Enjoyed to Read It.
Then He Sided With Senor, Dropping His Credibility by At Least 50%, Due to Senor Being As Bad As Any Guru. Doesnt' Make Him An Bad Person Or Anything,
But It Did Not Help The Debunker Side At All.

I think, or At Least Hope, Anyone from Aggressive Extremists, Jerk Off Stoners, True Beliefers, On The Fencers, Anyone in The Extended Casta Online Community, would Be Perfectly Fine In Real Life, Some One You Could Break Bread With And Enjoy The Company Off Despite Their Online Profile. Well anyone Except Shilloutue and Mr Hawaii ( ;D ). At Least I hope That Is The Case. We Are All Train Enthusiasts perhaps.

Mr X.
Title: Re: The blossoms are fragile
Post by: âspen on 04 March 2014 08:02:15 AM
Apparently くちきたない means Bitchtalk.

Google Translate struggles to attribute meaning to スステインド リアクション but provides a helpful guide to the pronunciation ... susuteindo riakushon.

Thank you Merlin.
Title: Re: The blossoms are fragile
Post by: Mr X on 04 March 2014 08:45:09 AM
susuteindo riakushon Bitchtalk,

I like That. It has An nice Ring To It.

Mr X.
Title: Re: The blossoms are fragile
Post by: âspen on 04 March 2014 01:08:55 PM

Are you sure?  I'll change things back once you've had a chance to be duly horrified.  (Or you can!)

Title: the possums are agile
Post by: tosk on 04 March 2014 10:26:49 PM
What is your native tongue, Mr. cool X?
 Inquiring Minds Want To Know...
(your spelling of silhouette (shilloutue) is somehow appropos, but I'm not sure why)

I hope our latest Member is not put off by some of these titles.

Welcome Tshaika.

I also wonder why Merlin is the horse whisperer
when he could more cleverly be the hoarse whisperer.

But I wonder about a lot of things.

D. Worrell = Butthead
XtraEntropy = Beavis

the grapenuts are edible.

Title: Re: The blossoms are fragile
Post by: Mr X on 06 March 2014 05:36:57 AM
hello mr t,

yes english is my language. it is not that clean cut but it is the only language i have used since young child stage.

i have posted quite an lot about my life at sr, to the point of oversharing i think. but i dont expect everyone to have read everything i have ever posted.

it is interested i think, how little we know about each other, i often want to ask everything about everyone but feel it would be rude to do so most times.

for now, merlin could you elaborate on the aggresive extemist view, and tosk, what are youre views on sustained reaction ?

mr j, i am not sure what all the different titles mean. if i am to be horrified you may have to explain it to me. i dont know why the blossoms are fragile, the possums agile, or why we are swimming for dad. in terms of randomness from my perspective, "tacos are nice to eat" seems like an good title.

mr x.
Title: the bosons are cackling
Post by: tosk on 06 March 2014 10:27:32 PM
Well, English is your language some of the time.

SR used to be good place to discuss and debate and debunk and deflower.
SR is now 2 people. No good.
Merlin is right - it's a conceit-fest now, among 2 people.
I would say something more graphic, but the kids are listening.

Perhaps you should know that I am also Shawn Arendo.
beep beep.
Title: Re: the belly has crackling
Post by: Mr X on 07 March 2014 04:48:43 AM
i think we could all agree the 2 person system is not good. nothing good seems to come from such a tightly closed system.

if you or merlin can say something more graphic, then why not. it is interesting. probably one of the most interested things about sustained reaction, how people view it after all those years, and views of what went wrong. if you cant' clearly say what you think and why you think it here, then where, secret business ? and if never, then why never.

i had an very good day today, including pork belly tacos, and was in an very good mood when i checked here. i have to say when i read the shawn arendo part i my reaction was "what the hell" "no way". quite an genuine suprise in an good way, it added to my day. by the way, i have recommended you to be an moderator. ;)

mr x.
Title: Re: The blossoms are fragile
Post by: ju4o on 07 March 2014 11:59:18 AM
Here is what I think about SR.  There are 2 problems,

(1) the immorality of moderator A
(2) the refusal of moderator B to recognize the recurring pattern which has him in its grip.

ModA is Wu, ModB is Jeremy.

There are lots and lots of examples.  I'll give one and it's a pretty trivial example but sometimes a trivial example is the easiest to describe in a short way.

Approx 2011 Wu introduced a new storyteller identity Wenceslao.  Jeremy asked Wenceslao "Are you Wu?", Wenceslao said "No", and Jeremy said "OK thanks for clarifying".

Years earlier Wu had been asked the same thing in a different context about another storyteller identity Rex Lucas.  Wu had been asked "Are you Rex Lucas" and Wu had said something like "No, and although I admittedly play games on the internet, when it comes to downright lying about my identity, I would not do that, it would violate my personal ethics".

(N.B. for present discussion, the question of whether Wu actually was or was not Rex Lucas is irrelevant.)

When it became undeniable that Wenceslas was Wu, Jeremy refused to admit that Wu had lied to him about something he had said he would not lie about.  So in summary

(1) Wu immoral (example: lying about something he had said he would not lie about)
(2) Jeremy in the grip of an allegiance to someone that in his heart of hearts he surely knows is flakey ... like with Castaneda.

It is so sad that problems which should be so easy to solve ~ could be done in an instant in a zen-like 100% turnaround ~ seem to be so hard to solve in practice.  SR could be a good place again but it seems unlikely.  That's the basic thought which has led to both the hat and forum4 I believe.  Now I think it's a very good thing that hat people and forum4 people are talking directly with each other and it would be even better if they could somehow merge.  Simply because they are both good places and one forum is better than two.
Title: Re: The blossoms are fragile
Post by: Mr X on 09 March 2014 05:52:58 AM
mr j,

that is an very well done post. critical honest analysis without insult. we can say what we think without insulting moda or modb, as they are not matter what just other people on another keyboard.

i personally dont like what dave did. it would be so fantastic if he could come here and explain himself, as speculation rules without direct input. And there is plenty of room for speculate.

no matter what his views were, there was absolutely no option for him to gain extra sr influence without dealing with senor. if anyone was in an position to add quality to sr from the debunker side it was him. wether he wanted to or not, there was no scenario where he didnt have to deal with senor. it would be easy to speculate he fell on his sword, and kept the debunker side going despite senor, despite the damage it caused to his own online persona. it would be easy to speculate otherwise.

it really does "suck" that an toxic person like senor can come along and ruin an entire online community. it is beyond silly that it has become an "senor has strong beliefs about his ability to know, you cannot debate with him about those beliefs because you are wrong, so go away and only read the reasons why senor is smarter than you" forum.

having deleted multiple paragraphs from this post i now understand why merlin or mr t might hold their tongue. but i still want to hear more.

as long as senor is control of sr, again it is absurd he was ever allowed in that position, sr seems doomed. the only possible way it would become an good place again is if he steps down, for good. 

mergers are interested, but complicated. i would include dutchtown as an potential merger partner. i do definitely think one forum is better than multiple. 100% zen turnarounds would be great but unfortunatly people are more complicated than that.

mr x.
Title: Re: The blossoms are fragile
Post by: ju4o on 14 March 2014 10:27:28 PM
"that is an very well done post" ~ nice of you to say so but I think one should bear in mind that the example I gave was pretty trivial ... I expect most people would think it too trivial to be worth bothering about.  I was posting to provide another perspective.

"no matter what his views were, there was absolutely no option for him to gain extra sr influence without dealing with senor. if anyone was in an position to add quality to sr from the debunker side it was him. wether he wanted to or not, there was no scenario where he didnt have to deal with senor."

I don't think that is the case.  It should be fairly easy for Jeremy to ease Wu out of the administrator positions if he wanted to.  Most likely he is happy enough with the present management.
Title: Re: The blossoms are fragile
Post by: Mr X on 15 March 2014 01:37:34 PM
hello mr j,

on an scale of "10 -trivial but well presented and thought out to explain the view type of post" to "1 - calling someone an aggressive extremist or saying one can be more graphic but wont do so, without any relevant exposition or explanation to back it up type of post" your post was an 10 out of 10.

as speculation, dave falling on his sword was an best case scenario. i dont know either way so can only speculate. an worst case scenario would be the he, boosted by the ego boost he was recieving prior to the return of wu, gobbled up any chance of power* like an little piggy, and being satisfied with that. the ability to turn an abandoned forum that was past its prime into an personal blog could of been tempting, if ones idea of *power is controlling somewhere that nobody reads.

dave having the ability to ease out senor is an funny statement, like saying dave has the ability to cure cancer. unlikely.

mr x.
Title: Re: The blossoms are fragile
Post by: ju4o on 19 March 2014 09:46:13 PM
Well I don't really agree with much of that but also I don't dis-agree with it enough to want to argue about it.  I guess in summary I feel that SR is not really worth arguing about any more.  Instead, I would suggest focussing on what it used to be good at and seeing how and where that could be furthered.

So what it used to be good at ... in my opinion ... was providing a meeting point for people who are on spiritual quests with people who question the very idea of spiritual quests.

Why would people who are on spiritual quests be interested in a place like SR used to be?  Perhaps because, if they have any sense, they are aware of the continuing need to question their quest.

And why would people who question the very idea of spiritual quests be interested in such a place?  Perhaps because they used to be on spiritual quests themselves, and still feel a residual interest.
Title: Re: The blossoms are fragile
Post by: Mr X on 20 March 2014 04:27:14 PM
hello mr j,

i dont mind if you dont fully agree, the important thing is that with this brief exchange you have said what you think, and it is good.

"I feel that SR is not really worth arguing about any more.  Instead, I would suggest focusing on what it used to be good at and seeing how and where that could be furthered." - j

that sounds like an plan to me. de constructing and re construction an online social environment does seem exceptionally hard. balance would be important, what if you got 50 skeptics signed up and 5 beleifers, long enough like that and it would be forever an skeptic place. how would intake be managed.

i would like to add two more types those who question the very idea of spiritual quests, aside from residual interesteders. while it is brutally hamfisted to label people as skeptics or true beliefers, it takes the humanity out of it, (unless they themselves identify as those labels), this makes 3 types of "skeptic/debunkers/people who question quests":

1. Perhaps because they used to be on spiritual quests themselves, and still feel a residual interest. want to belifers.
2  . Perhaps they are "on the fencers", people in the middle. possibly have been burned before. think there is an possible quest that is worthy, but are highly cautious due to being aware of all the scams out there. defensive fencers, dont want to be caught off guard.
3. Perhaps there are just good people, most drug counsellors are ex addicts themselves. it is an thing that happens with humans, people who have experienced something terrible want to protect and drive away others so they dont experience the same fate. sheperds. i have no doubt this is an type of person.
4. the equivalent of internet atheists, people who enjoy debating others to show and exercise their intelligence.

i have no doubt those type of peoples are out there, type 2 and 3 being particular valuable, but how to get them, and questers togeather, i dont know. that would be the challenge i guess.

for the people on spiritual quests, i guess it could be shown that historically, those types of people tend to seek each other out, and gather. i agree they would need sense to want to question themselves. but i ask, how many people on spiritual quests are sensible ? while there must it seems be some suspension of disbelief to start the quest, it does seems there are lots of non sensible people on such quests.

sorry for the long post, but on the other hand we have mr m :

"Sure, just hand over the hosting password, get your sidekick to cancel his details from the package management list and get Corey to sign the fax form to transfer the domain name and I'll happily maintain it; something you have never, ever done, and support it.  Otherwise, you know you could just try keeping your own commitments.  Maybe work through your buddy's evasion issues with him, to let him respond to the reminders and perhaps update the hosting contact list to include your email address.  Something like that." - mr m

they are not the words of someone has thinks sr is not worth arguing about. this thread, "deleted", was spawned by someone caring about it.

now we just need input from tosk, tosk, what do you think forum4 should be doing ?

perhaps mr j, the truth has 4 corners ? perhaps that is the answer.

mr x.
Title: Re: The blossoms are fragile
Post by: tosk on 21 March 2014 02:57:00 PM
I'm open to whatever.

My preference would be "paranormal" online experiments,
the only thing that was ever interesting at SR.

But of course I don't have time to "host" them,
so there's the rub.

Title: Re: The blossoms are fragile
Post by: ju4o on 22 March 2014 01:43:58 PM
But of course I don't have time to "host" them, so there's the rub.

Another glitch is if Merlin disapproves.

Most of us here have been brought up with a scientifically oriented culture, which ... is based on a widely corroborated set of beliefs about the nature of reality, according to which (what is commonly referred to as) the paranormal cannot and will not occur (with any frequency significantly above chance levels.)

Therefore, people in our culture who experience the paranormal (other than as an obvious fluke) become prone to a potentially agonizing dilemma.

Either they must deny their experience, or somehow try to explain it away;

or they must face up to the possibility that there might be something fundamentally wrong with the set of (otherwise well corroborated) beliefs which underpin their upbringing.

This is not a laughing matter.

Only two choices?
Couldn't they just ... accept there is a conflict between understanding and experience, shrug their shoulders and get on with things.

A good thing to be getting on with, in that case, would be the attempt to resolve the conflict

Well, I disagree...
That's where either grandiosity or bigotry creeps in.

Accepting the conflict cannot lead to either.

Curiously the original usage of the phrase "there's the rub" also refers to a reluctance to take on the risk of the paranormal (in Hamlet's case, the risk that there is an afterlife)

To die, to sleep—
No more; and by a sleep, to say we end
The Heart-ache, and the thousand Natural shocks
That Flesh is heir to? 'Tis a consummation
Devoutly to be wished. To die, to sleep,
To sleep, perchance to Dream; Aye, there's the rub,
For in that sleep of death, what dreams may come,
When we have shuffled off this mortal coil,
Must give us pause.

i.e. better to just shrug and get on with things.
Title: Re: The blossoms are fragile
Post by: ju4o on 23 March 2014 06:32:39 PM
So that leaves me wondering...... about the name Merlin.  According to wikipedia,

Merlin is a legendary figure best known as the wizard featured in the Arthurian legend. The standard depiction of the character first appears in Geoffrey of Monmouth's Historia Regum Britanniae, written c. 1136, and is based on an amalgamation of previous historical and legendary figures. Geoffrey combined existing stories of Myrddin Wyllt (Merlinus Caledonensis), a North Brythonic prophet and madman with no connection to King Arthur, with tales of the Romano-British war leader Ambrosius Aurelianus to form the composite figure he called Merlin Ambrosius (Welsh: Myrddin Emrys).

Geoffrey's rendering of the character was immediately popular, especially in Wales. Later writers expanded the account to produce a fuller image of the wizard. Merlin's traditional biography casts him as a cambion: born of a mortal woman, sired by an incubus, the non-human wellspring from whom he inherits his supernatural powers and abilities.

Non-human wellspring??????

I am worried that Merlin choosing the name Merlin for his online persona here could be a result of too many paranormal experiments which have led (as he himself observes the danger thereof) to a tinge of grandiosity.

So that is another reason for being cautious about tosk's suggestion.
Title: Re: The blossoms are fragile
Post by: tosk on 28 March 2014 08:43:45 AM
well, I'm just suggesting a bit of fun. whatever. (shrugs and walks away...)

what the heck happened to Mr. X-Man?
(shrugs and walks away...)
Title: Re: The blossoms are fragile
Post by: ju4o on 28 March 2014 11:15:50 AM
Well, how about firing up the ole clairvoyance,

you wish for an online paranormal experiment ... Mr X responds, exquisitely, by mysteriously disappearing ... your wish is granted ... merlin should be umpire i think.
Title: Re: The blossoms are fragile
Post by: Mr G on 28 March 2014 01:27:43 PM
Your whole forum is a paranormal experiment for me. I have not had any really noticeable synchronicities for about a year.

Postulate: Post to your forum => synchronicities follow.
Title: Re: The blossoms are fragile
Post by: ju4o on 28 March 2014 06:13:35 PM
Well I have a theory about that kind of thing, which is that a good situation for synchronicity is where there is a confluence of skeptics and believers.

If there is just a bunch of believers, then is the universe going to put any effort into conjuring up synchronicities?  Maybe not so much.  I mean, there would be not much point and it would end up being just for the believers' entertainment.  Entertainment is all very well of course (thank you for reminding us, tosk) but I hardly think the universe is going to feel that it is it's job supply it.

And if there is just a bunch of skeptics, then likewise, I think the universe might not feel like going to the bother of creating synchronicities, since the skeptics would simply not notice them or, if necessary, force themselves not to notice them, and it would be wasted effort on the universe's part.

But when you have skeptics and believers together, then everything changes.  If the universe lets slip a synchronicity in such a context, then the believers are going to try their hardest to make sure the skeptics notice it, and the skeptics are going to try their hardest to make sure the believers do not rejoice.  That is what I would call creative tension.  Which, according to Darwin and numerous other scientists of the first rank, is what leads to change.
Title: Re: The blossoms are fragile
Post by: ju4o on 29 March 2014 05:18:13 PM
Just after sending that post yesterday I was startled to hear a quotation being read out of a book, which said

"Those of greater capacity may rest in non-duality; those of middling capacity may rejoice in the miracles of the heavenly realms; those of lesser capacity may bind up their aggregates and make a food offering of them".

At first it was the word "rejoice" there which startled me and made me prick up my ears since it's not a very common word and I had just used it in a post.  Indeed, according to the forum database, the word "rejoice" does not occur at all in the forum until in yesterday's post.

So, ears pricked up, I paid attention to the meaning of the quote ... and was even more startled!  (Insofar as the quote is understandable at all, which I would have to say is not very).  "Rejoicing in the miracles of the heavenly realms" seems like a very good description of what I had just moments before mentioned that skeptics would try to prevent believers from doing.

So I think that counts as a nice synchronicity.
Title: Re: The blossoms are fragile
Post by: Mr G on 29 March 2014 08:29:32 PM
Since you shared yours...

Last Sunday, on a visit to my parents, I was curious about the origin of the term "blue blood". I used my mom's computer to google it, and in stead came upon the wikipedia entry for "Sacre Bleu". I learned for a second time that "zounds" is a contraction of "God's wounds", like "Gadzooks" is a contraction of "God's hooks" (the nails from the cross). Not an hour later, my father started watching a very depressing documentary about fetal alcohol syndrome or something like it. I suggested we watch The Simpsons, my father in stead randomly picked an episode of Futurama from his computer. I had seen it before, but never realised that Calculon says "God's wounds" in it. (Season 7, episode 20)

Yesterday, I watched "Anchorman 2". In it, a guy has a restaurant that serves deep fried bats to people. After the movie, I flipped over to a news channel just in time to hear that an outbreak of the Ebola virus in Guinea may have been caused by people eating bats. Their government has banned bat soup.

I had another good one today, but you get the idea. It's been an interesting week.
Title: Re: The blossoms are fragile
Post by: ju4o on 29 March 2014 10:24:02 PM
The bats that live in the loft are just waking up, glimpsed this evening for the first time this year.

Did you know they have a protector website called EUROBATS (spelt in all caps, like FORTRAN)?  I am not joking. (
Title: Bats in the belfry
Post by: Mr G on 30 March 2014 07:24:01 PM
So... in your opinion (or the opinion of Tosk, Merlin or Mr X), do synchronicities generally have a particular meaning? Or is it generally only a "cosmic wink"? My "God's wounds" sync refers. It seems like the kind of thing that may have significance, but it's not obvious to me.

Also... what kind of word is FORTRAN? Portmanteau? It shouldn't be all caps either, right? Perhaps "ForTran"? Merlin's "Grammar Nazi" link refers.

Title: Re: The blossoms are fragile
Post by: ju4o on 30 March 2014 09:11:51 PM
Bats flying around again at dusk today so they are definitely waking up.  But the big news this evening is......Nightingale!!  I cannot emphasize enough how extraordinarily early this is to hear it here.  They winter in southern Africa.  Well, this definitely gives meaning to "rejoice in the miracles (or wonders) of the heavenly (sky) realms".

"in your opinion ... do synchronicities generally have a particular meaning?"

I think they are reaffirmations from the world around us.
Title: Re: The blossoms are fragile
Post by: tosk on 31 March 2014 08:35:10 AM
I think they happen all the time,
but we only notice the most blatant synchronicities.

In my opinion,
the external world is simply reflecting the internal world.
It doesn't have a choice.
It's how things "work".

This may or may not be what  ju4o (and DJ) means
by "reaffirmations from the world around us".
Title: Re: The blossoms are fragile
Post by: Mr X on 01 April 2014 04:57:56 AM

while it seems nice to be exquisite, i have not dissappeared, if anyone has been absent it is merlin.

the other day, i read mr g post with anchorman 2 in it, during the few minuites i had between cooking dinner and tuning into an tv show i wanted to watch. immediately after reading the thread, i closed the tab, and loaded the tv guide to confirm the show i wanted to watch was on, when the guide loaded my eyes landed on anchorman 1, on after the show i wanted to watch.

my reaction was literally "huh", then i got on with my day. i also noted in my mind that i should mention it to mr g, and note that even though it happened, i couldnt see any meaning in it. it sounds far fetched that the entire universe wants me to watch the anchorman movies, maybe it just meant that synchonicites do happen.

it is an slippery slope. if there is meaning to random coincidence it also means there is an intelligence in the universe micro managing everything that happens to us. but to claim at all that their is an intelligence in the universe that matters, that effects things with purpose, is like claiming there is an god. it is like saying "humans have wondered about this for many thousands of years, yet i, due to an chance happening, can safely say there is an god. all those people in histroy, such as theologists, only ever had to ask me, because i figured it out, because anchorman."

so i too am not sure of the meaning of such happenings, and am not sure if there even is any meaning more than that they happen. i dont know. still interesting.

mr x.
Title: Re: The blossoms are fragile
Post by: ju4o on 01 April 2014 12:20:18 PM
Well this is getting unexpectedly theological ... a subject about which I know very little but here is a suggestion:

I think orthodox theology says that signs and marvels do not prove the existence of god, but at most suggest to a person that god might exist, and it is then up to the person to move on to the next stage, the details of which depend on whatever religion it is that they belong to, and which somehow may lead them to the state of believing.

i.e. people aren't supposed to believe in god because startling synchronicities occurred, but startling synchronicities (if they seem to be signs or marvels) can be one way in which people may be set on a road that might lead towards belief.

As to whether synchronicites have meaning, I think it's a question that can be addressed scientifically.

If synchronicities cluster around emotionally charged situations, then they have meaning.  If they occur randomly and regardless of the involvement of emotions, then they don't have meaning.
Title: Re: The blossoms are fragile
Post by: Mr G on 01 April 2014 12:59:44 PM
Hello Mr X, perhaps the universe is telling you, through me, that there is no need to waste a valuable evening watching Anchorman 2. It might be good for 2 or 3 laughs, but if you have other viewing options you might want to explore those first.

ju40, I'm glad you posted that final statement. I have had synchronicities clustered around emotional situations - of which I'll tell more later - but most seem quite random and very trivial. I had a question in mind before I read your post, which I would still like to ask of all the members:

I think they are reaffirmations from the world around us.

But a reaffirmation of what?

PS - Since we're talking of theology, I have a cynical habit of randomly looking at the TBN (religion) channel to see if they're talking abour money. I have so far had a more than 50% hit rate. A synchronicity in the Christian context would be called a "miracle", correct? These people are so blatant... the preacher says he offered to preach for free at another church, then God paid for his petrol. The owner of the petrol station said God told her to do this. The sermon was about Jesus multiplying the loaves and fish. Clearly all of these stories are calculated to make people think they will get more back from God if they donate to TBN. Merlin, does this count as a conspiracy?
Title: Re: The blossoms are fragile
Post by: tosk on 01 April 2014 08:09:50 PM
They only seem to have more meaning when things get emotional.

They only seem to hint of an outside intelligence.

They are simply the product of the reflective nature of reality.

Title: Re: The blossoms are fragile
Post by: ju4o on 01 April 2014 08:49:42 PM
"They only seem to have more meaning when things get emotional."

Yes that makes sense if synchronicities happen at random intervals by chance.

On the other hand, if synchronicities happen more often than chance expectation would indicate when in the vicinity of emotionally charged situations (which is what I meant by "if synchronicities cluster around emotionally charged situations") then that is reason for inferring that they have meaning ... not only seem to have meaning, but really do have meaning.

Title: Re: The blossoms are fragile
Post by: Mr G on 01 April 2014 09:34:28 PM
Okay this is quite freaky... when ju4o posted FORTRAN I immediately tried to figure out the capitalization rules for abbreviations and acronyms and my very first thought was...

What did U.N.C.L.E. stand for?

When did you add that picture, Tosk? Has it been there the whole time?

Edit: Okay now I'm thinking it must have been there all along and that's why I thought of it. But anyway, here's another one. I was visiting a friend tonight and she happened to mention that her father used to bring them ostrich eggs from his hunting trips in Namibia. I just checked all my usual internet favourites including a certain linux blog, where someone's posted an April fools' recipe for homemade ice cream. First ingredient: one ostrich egg.
Title: Re: The blossoms are fragile
Post by: tosk on 02 April 2014 09:12:20 AM
No Mr. G, it was not there before.

I thought about adding an avatar around the time of the FORTRAN post,
but I just added the UNCLE avatar in the past day.

So yes, freaky.

Mr. ju4o,

It's possible synchronicities happen more often in the vicinity of emotionally charged situations
(due to larger energy fluctuations),

but I don't see why increased frequency infers increased meaning.
Title: Re: The blossoms are fragile
Post by: ju4o on 02 April 2014 09:56:24 PM
Well, 'due to larger energy fluctuations' could mean lots of things,
for example it could mean that things are just literally hotter ... because of 'heated' emotions (ha!) ... molecules are jiggling around more quickly and everything happens faster so it would be natural that synchronicities could happen more frequently just by chance.

But I don't for a moment imagine that is what you meant!

However, if you meant something rather more mystical (or at least less materialistic) then, from the idea that energy fluctuations (in a subtle way) could affect the frequency of synchronicities, it's not such a big leap to the idea that they could affect the quality of synchronicities as well as their frequency.

It may be a bit sloganistic (and I'm delighted to note that 'slogan' comes from Gaelic sluagh-ghairm, 'battle cry', I just looked it up) but one might even consider that the energy fluctuations which swirl around emotionally charged situations are carriers of meaning.
Fluctuations ... waves ... carriers of information.  A synchronicity may express a quality, and a quality may be suffused with meaning.
One writer has commented about a synchronicity that
This experience confirmed my prior belief, on the basis of no evidence, that ESP was real but useless. The connection between Margaret and me had caused me needless anxiety on the bus without benefiting her.

( (
but I think that little cameo, far from being 'useless', is absolutely brimming with meaning as it expresses her situation, and that of her friend, so perfectly.
Title: Re: The blossoms are fragile
Post by: tosk on 07 April 2014 09:31:48 AM
Well, we may need to define what we each mean by "meaning",
and whether meaning and information are the same thing.

I'm saying something similar to:

Due to a confluence of energy and intent,
certain information is "tagged", referenced,
and reflected.

But the amount of "meaning" accorded this information
is all determined by the awareness noticing the reflecting information.
Title: Re: The blossoms are fragile
Post by: Mr X on 08 April 2014 02:35:13 PM
"Well, we may need to define what we each mean by "meaning",
and whether meaning and information are the same thing." - mr t

yes, basically my thoughts exactly, including the "we each".

the meaning of meaning has to come into it.

if energy if being used in explainations then that could do with an definition too.

mr x.
Title: Re: The blossoms are fragile
Post by: ju4o on 23 July 2014 03:22:08 PM
The race to revive the craft, ISEE-3, began in earnest in April. At the end of May, using the Arecibo Observatory radio telescope in Puerto Rico, the team succeeded in talking to the spacecraft, a moment Mr. Wingo described as “way cool.” This made Skycorp the first private organization to command a spacecraft outside Earth orbit, he said.


The usual method of transmitting and receiving at Arecibo is automated: software routines control switching from transmitter to receiver and back again. This process takes between six and eight seconds, depending on how nervous you want to make Dana. Motors drive a turret, a circular floor with instruments on it. Adding a new transmitter requires either manual intervention to turn the floor between transmitting and receiving, or weeks of time to add the correct commands to the control software routines. Since the ISEE-3 project required quick implementation at Arecibo, we opted for manual switching between transmitting and receiving. Thus, at least two people needed to be in the telescope dome for when we’d communicate with the spacecraft, and at least one person needed to be in the control room directing the turret to rotate. This entire ballet was complex, and orchestrated over phone lines.

...It was late afternoon and the sky was mostly clear. Blue patches were hazy with Saharan dust, blown thousands of miles across the Atlantic and keeping it from raining here. When it rains you can't go up to the platform as the risk of lightning makes the prospect of being so far up in the air dangerous. The afternoon looked clear, so we milled around the cable car building, waiting for our ride to the telescope platform.

...I spent the next 2.5 hours waiting for Dana to holler from a phone on the other side of the room, "PLUG IT IN" or "UNPLUG IT". I'd plug in the cord, jump down the ladder, twiddle down the attenuation on the power amplifier, then holler back, "PLUGGED IN, ATTENUATION Dowwnnnnn," dropping my voice on the last syllable. The other way, "UNPLUGGED, ATTENUATION UPPPPPPPPP!" to indicate I'd reduced the risk of the transmitter being fried between runs. The phone on my side of the room wasn’t working, hence the old-school communication methods.

To see the signals being transmitted to the spacecraft was great. I’d plug in the power amp, wait a few seconds, and watch the signal go from low to high. Sometimes they’d transmit long tones to the spacecraft while refining its known position. Other times they'd transmit commands to tell the spacecraft to spin faster by firing its thrusters.

...I could also tell when we were about to switch from receive to transmit: huge cable trays would start moving, and the dome would shudder as it moved almost imperceptibly. Phil had enabled "leading" to the ephemeris, the set of positions where we believe the spacecraft to be. Thus, right before we'd transmit, we'd move the dome a little ahead of where we expected the spacecraft to be; transmit; move the dome to a little behind of where the spacecraft would be; then receive. This "leading" motion mostly accounted for the orbital velocity of the Earth, not the spacecraft. And it made it a little easier to anticipate upcoming un/plugging events before Dana would holler over the phone.
Title: Re: The blossoms are fragile
Post by: ju4o on 03 August 2014 03:00:53 PM
We will be beginning the "ISEE-3 Interplanetary Citizen Science Mission" on 10 August 2014 as the spacecraft flies by the Moon. We have a functional space craft that can do science and is already returning new data.

This will be the first citizen-science, crowd-funded, crowd-sourced, interplanetary space science mission.

Inside mission control (tiling on the walls presumably a legacy from McDonald's):