Forum4
Forum4 => New age myths => Topic started by: ju4o on 25 August 2015 03:40:44 PM
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The idea of this thread is to suggest an analogy between (1) exploration of radioactivity, in terms of:
- 1A: the weak and not very useful fizzing of natural (terrestrial) radioactivity
- 1B: the barely imaginable intensity of the energy released by the nuclear chain reaction
and exploration of psi, in terms of:
- 2A: the weak and not very useful anomalous correlations of natural psi
- 2B: the life-changing potential of trained clairvoyance
(http://zeta.forum4.org/pix/curie.jpg)
On 12th September 1933 The Times newspaper quoted from an address given the previous day by Ernest Rutherford in Leicester, at the annual meeting of the British Association ("A review of a quarter of a century's work on atomic transmutation"):
The energy produced by the breaking down of the atom is a very poor kind of thing. Anyone who expects a source of power from the transformation of these atoms is talking moonshine.
'Talking moonshine' is English idiom for talk that is foolishly unrealistic.
The literal sense of the word may not have been in Rutherford's mind, but there is a way in which moonshine is exactly the right description.
Reading Rutherford's quote now, a luminous correspondence between 'moonshine' and the faintly gleaming glow of the wristwatch hands of those heroic decades of the early twentieth century is unmissable. But moonshine is the reflected glow of sunlight, which comes from the 'transformation of atoms'.
Anyway, see what happened next ... on the very same day, according to some accounts:
(http://zeta.forum4.org/pix/szilard1.jpg)
~Richard Rhodes, The Making of the Atomic Bomb, 1987
Very atmospheric! It is surely worth looking at in more detail. From the same book:
(http://zeta.forum4.org/pix/szilard2.jpg)
This story is now famous and as such it's interesting to note that it could be quite inaccurate. One minor detail is that, according to the British Newspaper Archive, Rutherford's address to the British Association was reported not only in The Times but in the Nottingham Evening Post. Also in the Gloucestershire Echo, the Aberdeen Journal, the Hartlepool Mail, the Derby Daily Telegraph, the Portsmouth Evening News and the Sunderland Daily Echo and Shipping Gazette. I think the author's confident assertion that it was necessarily in The Times that Szilard found the spark may be taken with a pinch of salt.
And I would be more than slightly doubtful about the traffic light which Szilard waited for to turn green. It seems very unlikely that it would have been a pedestrian traffic light. The first pedestrian traffic light was installed in San Fransisco in 1929. It is scarcely believable that such a thing would have existed in London in 1933. But if it was an ordinary traffic light, Szilard should have been waiting for red, not for green.
Anyway, here is a much more plausible version:
(http://zeta.forum4.org/pix/szilard3.jpg)
~The Collected Works of Leo Szilard: Scientific Papers, Bernard T. Feld and Gertrud Weiss (eds)
Now, psi. Like with radioactivity, the key fact, and historically difficult to establish, is that it exists at all. It doesn't matter that in its natural state it may be weak, unreliable and pretty much useless (except for glowing watch hands in the case of radioactivity, or forum games in the case of psi). What is important is if it exists at all. If it exists then, as a second step, it would make sense to discuss how it might possibly, sometimes, in the right and perhaps rare conditions, be intense and become awesome.
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"I never knew Szilard to stop for a red light."
~Jacob Bronowski, The Ascent of Man, 1973
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Thanks J4 looks like you've done the hard work for us. Would you like us to try and contribute here or would you like to keep this thread relatively neat? I'll try not to make a mess.
I tried to think of definitions but it occurred to me that we're probably not the first to think of it. So if you don't mind a cheap google search effort, the question "what is psi?" (besides 6.895 kPa) points us to the site of the Parapsychological Association:
It is the term parapsychologists use to generically refer to all kinds of psychic phenomena, experiences, or events that seem to be related to the psyche, or mind, and which cannot be explained by established physical principles.
In their FAQ sections, they kindly explain what parapsychology is, and what it is not:
http://www.parapsych.org/articles/36/76/what_is_parapsychology.aspx
http://www.parapsych.org/articles/36/75/what_is_not_parapsychology.aspx
(It's not long reading)
Without going into questions or affirmations of the credentials of this association, do you think these are fair outlines for discussions in your thread?
Perhaps The Rt Hon. Lord Rutherford meant to say "Moonshine", which I'm sure you'll agree is a different kettle of fission... Ahem :-X
Master X, if it so behoves our learn'd host I suggest that we wander hither...
Edit: erratum - he did say "moonshine", I had it confused with the thread title.
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hello,
i too found myself looking up psi, and also ended up on an page from that website :
http://archived.parapsych.org/what_is_psi_varvoglis.htm
first things first, mr j, when you say psi what is your definition. what is the working definition of psi here in moonlight that we can all refer to ?
x.
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"What is psi?" Here is an example.
There is a wonderful story (circa 1990, which was written up in an Australian newspaper and later made into a movie) concerning an Australian medical student who was lost in the Himalayas on a trek for about six weeks.
Thrangu Rinpoche had been consulted by the sister of the Australian medical student, because she had met someone in Boudhanath, who recommended she ask a lama. She had nothing to lose, for she had exhausted every other possibility without success, in her attempt to locate her brother. She visited Rinpoche and told him her woeful story.
Rinpoche asked for her map of the Himalayas and did some kind of contemplation and went over the map with his mala (using it as a kind of divining rod), and he told her that she would find him in a certain area on the map. Because she feared the worst --her brother had been lost for over four weeks in the snowy Himalayas without food or shelter-- the woman asked Rinpoche if her brother was dead. And Rinpoche replied that she would find him alive.
Unfortunately the woman did not have faith in Rinpoche's visionary talent and she did not begin the search immediately in the area he recommended. All the people leading the search were of the opinion that it was impossible for him to have made his way into the area outlined by Rinpoche, the so-called hidden valley, for there was no path leading into it.
Another two weeks of precious time went by before the sister decided --as the final flight-- to have the helicopter pilot fly over the so-called "hidden valley"; not because she expected to find him alive, but only because she wanted to return to Australia knowing with certainty that she had exhausted every possibility in her search for her brother. Well lo and behold, when the helicopter flew over the hidden valley, who should come out from his shelter under a rock: none other than the medical student himself, still alive after six weeks without food. If only the sister had listened to the recommendation of the Great Visionary, Thrangu Rinpoche, they would have found him within four weeks instead of six, and chances are he would have been in much better shape than he was.
~http://www.rinpoche.com/stories.htm (http://www.rinpoche.com/stories.htm)
If that story is true, it would be an example of the intensified form of psi and of how psi can be actually useful, in contrast to the weakly fizzing forms of it that we may have been glimpsing in the exploration thread.
But, according to the analogy which I am suggesting, the weakly fizzing forms are a crucial first step.
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hello j,
i was hoping for more a list or range of what psi covers in your view, that is a start. before looking up psi, i thought it meant esp/telepathy, and maybe telekinesis. i did not know and was an bit surprised it also relates to the strongest and most interesting parts of ghostly things. although thinking about it, it makes sense to be included (that there is more to us than the physical). to get started :
- 2A: the weak and not very useful anomalous correlations of natural psi
- 2B: the life-changing potential of trained clairvoyance
If it exists then, as a second step, it would make sense to discuss how it might possibly, sometimes, in the right and perhaps rare conditions, be intense and become awesome.
briefly, if i rambled my methods for trying to see a real apparition, you would notice not much of it would have to do with ghosts. it would be like transparent wax on wax off series of distractions/focuses. training is essential even if doesnt seem to be having much effect. as you really need your mind to be on point when it comes to it.
this leads to what we could call "simulation". it could perhaps help towards discussion of rare conditions for awesomeness.
basically - a lone security guard is doing his rounds in silence in a well lit building, sees an apparition.
paranormal investigators come to find the ghost, they turn off all the lights, use night vision cameras, fill the building with people and talking and electricity, wifi and radio signals that are normally not there. they dont see the apparition.
what is the difference in conditions. for one the witness is not tightly focused on the ghost. they are at work, doing something else. they are also familiar to the location.
so the simulation would be to be alone, be focused on something else, be familiar to the location. but think how hard it would be to simulate the conditions of a poltergeist in a family home. the ghost finder would have to live with the family for months, and by being there would disrupt the original conditions. simulation is not easy but it is not without merit.
mr x.
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"transparent wax on wax off series"
As often happens, I don't feel very confident that I know what you mean. But it seems interesting anyway, especially how it suggests that initial training in this kind of thing involves, as much as anything else, training the imagination.
Once I heard learning the skill of aura-seeing explained something like this:
to develop the skill of aura-seeing, you develop a strong wish to do it, and you try to do it, and you keep trying, and perhaps you start catching glimpses of auras, and you go on trying (but it has to be a relaxed, non-fraught kind of trying), and the glimpses become gradually more sustainable.
This provides an opening for skeptics to say how it just goes to show that this skill (and similar ones) is purely imaginary.
And it's worth noting at this point that some of the explanations which dJ gave to Castaneda are rather of the same kind. For example, the first one of all, about finding the 'sitio', is
the proper thing to do was to find a 'spot' (sitio) on the floor where I could sit without fatigue
[...] I had no idea how to begin or even what he had in mind. Several times I asked for a clue, or at least a hint, as to how to proceed
[...] The general pattern was that I had to 'feel' all the possible spots that were accessible until I could determine without a doubt which was the right one.
[...] I deliberately tried to 'feel' differences between places, but I lacked the criteria for differentiation. I felt I was wasting my time, but I stayed. My rationalization was that I had come a long way just to see don Juan, and I really had nothing else to do.
Then in J2I the description of how to learn the 'gait of power' is somewhat similar:
He urged me to try it myself
[...] I tried various times without any success. I simply could not let go. The fear of injuring my legs was overpowering. Don Juan ordered me to keep on moving in the. same spot and to try to feel as if I were actually using the "gait of power."
The question which interests me is, with this kind of training, how does one validate that one is learning a real and not an imaginary skill.
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hello mr j,
i am aware of "don't feel very confident that I know what you mean" and i am actively trying to be more clear (spellcheck on overdrive). however i think even perfect english would not be enough to bridge the differences of our minds.
training the imagination, i agree. it is totally possible for ones mind to become limited in range.
"with this kind of training, how does one validate that one is learning a real and not an imaginary skill."
that is a good question. one we should continue to ask ourselves. no matter what direction things go in, let us check we are tethered to reality.
i also dont want to make a mess in this thread, or ramble about ghosts unless that is welcome. but if you want an exercise that relates to the gait of power quotes but is more useful for the strange quest of finding apparition psi events, i would be happy to type up the assignment. you are going to need a tree. then you could decide as you are doing it if you are learning a real skill or not.
mr x.
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Great but aren't we still gearing up for your previous challenge which was something about never being addicted to nicotine, or was it never not being addicted to nicotine, I can't remember which way round it was now but I remember trying to work out if I would qualify and thought I probably would but decided to wait for further clarification.
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hello j,
we are gearing up for an nicotine challenge ? i did not know that. in post 173 of part 1 of the general thread nicotine was mentioned, i didnt know we were preparing for that.
the nicotine thing related specifically to dreams. i dont think psi or general super threads covers dreams. at some point f4 is going to have to address the topic of dreams. (i am usually uninterested in that topic but after part 1 it is really hard to ignore that dreams exist).
very simple - if someone has never been addicted to nicotine they are very qualified. although anyone is qualified, it would just be an bad idea to accidentally get anyone re hooked on nicotine for and very simple dream experiment that is essentially meaningless.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/will-a-nicotine-patch-make-you-smarter-excerpt/
not worth rambling about but it was interesting you brought up the nicotine things of all things, as speaking of things that stopped before they started, i recently had an strong experience with accidentally quitting smoking, due to trying to train myself to try to find a ghost again (not an clean cut story, but that unexpected thing did not lead to psi training, it was quite an distraction). completely out of no where. (have relapsed on the nicotine since).
x.
ps.
so if you have a tree, on your property, 100 meters at least from your house, go an touch it, and smell it.
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I was thinking this whole time about formal ways of describing the variables in psi, without much luck. Do you think it's possible to reduce it to something like a science with quantities and units and such or do you feel it needs a completely different approach, e.g. shamanism?
Mr X, I was just about to go to sleep and couldn't find a comfortable position, and I thought of you hurting your shoulder by sleeping on it... I'm afraid that's something you'll have to start getting used to... You know, the enemies of the warrior and all that. But perhaps like Carlos before you finding that special place on the floor, their might be a comfortable position in bed that will let you sleep in without injuring yourself...
I think experiments are in order...
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hello g,
formal ways and making categories and descriptions is good, and i agree, not easy. ive been thinking of it as a scale, like 0-10, 1 is the normal or natural (us and bigfoot), 10 is the highest possible supernatural idea, god. the afterlife is an close to god concept, say a 9. psi covers some afterlife things. where does psi fit on the scale. where do syncs fit. or in other words, i have no idea.
shamanism is not without value, but having a more scientific approach with quantities and units also has value. im thinking we could maybe make our own system ? not reinvent the wheel, take quality parts from other systems if they are functional. saving us decades of research. i dont want to pretend to be an scientist but i dont want to become a new age beliefer either, the right stuff is what we want.
after the sleep-in injury, that day was all about finding the right position. starting with figuring out a way to slide out of bed to get my legs on the ground and hoist my torso into an upright position. then figuring out the exact rules for being able to walk without alarming the injury. (all good now).
mr x.
ps. minor correction, psi discussion could cover dream things, but this thread or general thread shouldnt become a dream reporting thread.
mr j, can you think of an atmospheric pressure/sync test, that requires no guessing, say just cards being drawn. 5 minutes participation per week, just drawing cards and reporting. ongoing.
edit - ppss, g is there anything from your profession that could be of use to these sort of explorations. such as any insight into the process of learning, a person going from not knowing something to knowing something. or something simple like lesson plans or organizing the act of learning.
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" ... formal ways of describing the variables in psi ... something like a science with quantities and units and such ... "
What I would suggest, in relation to such a splendid appetite for formal methods and scientific ways as is implicit in your remark, is as follows.
Feynman wrote,
I think I can safely say that nobody understands quantum mechanics. ... Do not keep saying to yourself, if you can possibly avoid it, 'But how can it be like that?' because you will get 'down the drain', into a blind alley from which nobody has yet escaped. Nobody knows how it can be like that.
but if that is true, it is because we are not yet ready to understand quantum mechanics.
The mold of human cognition (this might sound better in German and should probably include some word like zeitgeist) has not yet developed to the point where it can possibly understand quantum mechanics.
But we get more ready to understand it by doing exactly what Feynman said not to do, which is to mull over the question, 'But how can it be like that?'
In previous centuries, the same thing applied to Newtonian mechanics.
At one time, humanity could not possibly embrace intellectually the idea that the universe is made of little billiard balls bouncing around and that was all there was to it. It made no sense, the idea simply would not lodge in the human mind.
It's even unclear to what extent Newton himself was intellectually at home in a Newtonian universe. According to Leibniz,
Sir Isaac Newton and his followers have also a very odd opinion concerning the work of God. According to their doctrine, God Almighty wants to wind up his watch from time to time: otherwise it would cease to move. He had not, it seems, sufficient foresight to make it a perpetual motion.
But gradually, over a long period of time during which people kept asking themselves Feynman's forbidden question, 'But how can it be like that?', the mold of human cognition developed to the point where eventually people really could feel at home in a billiard ball universe. By about the twentieth century, vast numbers of people really did naturally feel that this is how things just are. And those people, of course, could not possibly believe in psi.
Well, now the time has arrived for the next step. Actually, that time arrived at least a hundred years ago, but these things move slowly.
Let the quantum question, 'But how can it be like that?', lodge well in our minds, and after a few hundred more years the answer will come.
It doesn't have to be only physicists who do this. It doesn't even have to be primarily physicists who do it. It is a matter of the common mode of cognition of humanity as a whole, to which everyone contributes.
Mulling the question, continually, 24 hours a day, dreaming and awake, is helping the development of the mold of human cognition.
Would you agree?
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I do agree. I think the German word might be gestalt or something, which really does sound better than mindmold. I don't really have an appetite for formal methods, but I think it might be interesting giving it a go. I agree that psi has aspects that are un-about-speakable, but I am interested in finding a substantial difference between "real" psi and superstition. I really do think that there is something like "real psi", but I'm not sure about newspaper ads that say "Professor Bala showed me my enemies in a mirror, he gave me magic herbs. After one week I hit the lotto and was promoted at work and now my husband came back. Thank you Professor Bala at his stylish surgery next to Spar only R300."
Mr X, my profession might be an example of how not to approach something complex. My field is "vocational education", and like its' friends "basic education" and "higher education", was something that was actually pretty well understood for thousands of years. It's often said that prostitution is the oldest profession, but I think teaching is at least as old as that. It's something that we do instinctively, we know quite well how to show someone how to do something, then make them do it over and over until they do it good. So imagine everybody's great surprise when it was announced that a new way of teaching people stuff has been invented. They called it "Outcomes Based Education". Great philosophers cracked the code to boil knowledge into nuggets of uniform mass and value, so that learners could ride a great conveyor, mouths open, and have qualifications rammed down their throat in a piecemeal fashion. These philosophers' stones, these golden nuggets of knowledge were in fact sentences, most importantly ones with verbs. By thus codifying a standard text into irreducible atoms of Thunk, it was believed that learners shall breeze through courses, steadfast in their determination to collect'em all!
String 5 or so in a row and you've got yourself a Unit Standard, that is a: "Registered statement of desired education and training outcomes and its associated assessment criteria together with administrative and other information as specified in the regulations."
As such, "Math 1, Chapter 1: Some Geometry and stuff" became "Describe, draw, analyse and construct planar shapes and patterns and spatial objects and describe, interpret and represent the environment geometrically "
See, they thought they were making it easier. Next you might learn how to "Measure, estimate & calculate physical quantities & explore, critique & prove geometrical relationships in 2 and 3 dimensional space in the life and workplace of adult with increasing responsibilities"
I
shit
you
not.
It's dead, Jim. They've killed it.
So perhaps I was a little premature with thoughts about units of psi. Google also tried to make units of knowledge, it was supposed to be called a "knol". What a dumb idea... who could think that "A jiffy lasts 10 milliseconds" might have the same educational value as "In a right angled triangle, the square of the hypotenuse equals the sum of the squares of the other two sides." And who could think that students should spend the same amount of time on those two, or that lecturers should get paid according to how many factoids they've piped down the gullet?
WHO?
On a lighter note X, you still have time to listen to the audiobook of The Martian before the movie comes out... I cannot recommend it highly enough.
PS: I just had to share this little psi psync, on sunday after the GP at Monza, Lewis Hamilton was under investigation because his rear left tyre was 0.3 p.s.i. under the prescribed minimum... as he tried to keep a straight face as the interviewers told him, I thought I spotted a bit of schadenfreude in the German Vettel's expression... and it made me think of zeitgeist and I thought... I wonder if ju40's a Ferrari fan...
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hello,
prof. bala at least has something going for him. he has a system that works - he gets money for nothing. imagine if a system actually had any value, if it actually worked, not imagine the money side, but the effect that would have on the users.
it is something for another post, but i have been wading through some inner bullshit and i too really think there is some sort of real psi, just hard to settle down on an idea of what the real stuff is.
in the past week or so i became annoyed at the great system of modern education. looking at the parapsychology units of different universities around the world, trying to read the papers they had published, paywall after paywall. i understand people need funding, but it would be nice if research was available to people who want to learn. the idea of renting a published paper seems weird but i sort of understand. there must be a nice academic piracy scene.
i really like the teaching as oldest profession part.
it is friday, by sunday we will have section for experiments. starting with the nicotine one as an informal formal experiement.
trying to find a tree will remain informal. if you have a tree, and can identify it by touch and smell, pay attention to the starting point. the doorway of your house that you go through as you walk to the tree. be able to identify the door frame by touch, you can smell it if you want but not needed. every time you walk to the tree during daylight, pay attention to everything with your eyes.
ps.
looking up "collect'em all", witcher 3 ? i had been wondering of some of your mountains of work was witcher3.
the martian, have avoided all spoilers of book and movie so far, will get it on audible, awesome.
mr x.
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That calls forth a memory, travelling in pueblo country. Each pueblo can be very different from the previous and the next. Some are quite like normal life, with school buildings and community art centres, and look fairly twentieth century in some ways. Others are in another world. This one, near the Rio Grande, where the group arrived and parked in the shade of a tree, had a large expanse of beaten earth with the tree in the middle, and at two edges of the expanse were rows of adobe houses looking tiny in the distance. Perhaps there were a few benches along the front of the houses, but nobody in sight, it was the middle of the heat of the day, in the middle of August.
The rule for the group was, just show up. When visiting a pueblo it is no use marching up and saying Howdy like an American. You have to show up, respond if anything happens or just wait.
After a while an elderly gentleman emerged from somewhere, perhaps he had been sitting on one of the benches and we had not seen him. Slowly and peacefully he started walking towards the group. White shirt, brown trousers, flip flops, hat.
It seemed to get hotter. Mirages started swirling up from the beaten earth where there were eddies of air. We thought, perhaps we should go and greet him half way, and so spare him from walking further across the baking hot expanse. But no, better stick to the rules, just wait.
Step by step he took. Baking. By the time he got about three quarters of the way across the expanse, we realized he was not walking towards us, he was walking directly towards the tree.
Still he was about fifty metres away. By then we could see his expression. Noble.
When he reached the edge of the shade we all breathed a sigh of relief. Now he was walking in the shade, the last few steps to the tree, with its beautifully spreading branches, under which the group's car was parked and which we were all stading in the shade of.
He reached the trunk of the tree. He lightly touched it. Then slowly and peacefully he started walking back the way he had come. It began to be not quite so hot, the place was very fertile, near the big river, maybe there was even a hint of cooling breezes somewhere in the air.
We watched his slowly receding form. At length he arrived back at the row of adobe houses in the distance. The group got back into its car, and drove off.
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hello j,
nice story, at first i thought it was a quote or a sanchez story. why was the group there, why was the rule a thing or how did you know about the rule ? who was the group ?
next step for tree finders is to get a torch, a small one, so you can cover the beam with your thumb or palm. as next you have to start finding the tree at night. as you walk to the tree, pay attention to everything with your ears.
Mulling the question, continually, 24 hours a day, dreaming and awake, is helping the development of the mold of human cognition.
the mulling over things 24 hrs a day has been happening. i have noticed my brain, while asleep, is trying really hard to process information not just about psi type things, but forum4. in dreams my brain visits the forum, logs in sometimes, sometimes it invents characters for the members here and i talk with them for hours. multiple time after waking in the morning i am disappointed after spending hours figuring things out, and remembering nothing.
before the forum games dreams were not really a thing. they happened sometimes, made no effort to remember them and i was fine with that.
one sunday in the general thread i posted a tupe for sense8, that night had amazing nightmares. since then i continued to have nightmares and intense dreams, some which i attributed to a lack of nictotine for about a month. but as it started before the nicotine diet started, it wasnt that.
it settled into having intense dreams everyday to the point of being predictable and even looking forward to it when i go to bed. even a basic lucid dream a few weeks ago where i thought "i gotta tell the forum about this".
im not saying we are going to magically become telepathic through dreams, or that dreaming together is real, or that lucid dreams are anything more than some self awareness, but dreams in the psi frame are interesting.
will post the nicodream thing today, dont hold onto your hat as it not very exciting.
mr x.
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some things i have been thinking of, just posting before i forget them,
firstly, in regards to training psi and how to make it awesome, my first thought about that was - find the right people. try testing telepathy on your own, doesnt work well.
a telepathy game with a friend who can finish your sandwiches sentences is more likely to have results than with a total stranger. but more than being "on the same page" or having similar interests so you have similar thought patterns, the right people seem to just click regardless of difference, the syncs and weird stuff just seems to happen with those people. im not sure how that could apply to training but i do think it is something that would/does have an effect on psi experiences. the small group at f4 seems pretty good to me.
im thinking communication is at least a way to extract the weirdness from the group. for example i recently started communicating again with a friend, and some really weird psyncs started becoming apparent, such as they had already happened, but by while talking about stuff i noticed that they had occurred.
next, this whole tree finding business, i dont want to waste your time. it is not a bad exercise but its very specifically about one part of ghost finding training, on its own or in itself the exercise might help you become more mindful. as an idea - using the moon as part of that exercise would be nice, but i havent tried that so had to go with the torch method. find the tree and the doorway at night on the full moon, find both every night until there is no moon, no torches allowed. sounds cool but a bit over dramatic and over shamanic.
im not giving up my torch due to snakes and spiders, moon training sounds good but yeah i am keeping a torch with me. but that is sort of the point, the retreat, when the ghost finds you. (and drains your torch of power)
so i was thinking, even if mr j learns to identify all sounds, to walk silently in the dark, how to place scent markers or even plays around with the untested ideas of echolocation and heart rate control, it will not lead to psi anomalies. just be useful skills under the conditions of knowing the location of a anomaly and physically going there.
so i was thinking, venice, poveglia. im not sure i can claim syncs on this, but mr j travelling to poveglia has looped through my mind a few times. such as the wiki page mentioning ghost adventures tv show, i thought that is not a good reference to make in serious psi discussion (even though i watch that show), fast forward to x watching the current episode of that show, the castaneda hotel, still thinking that is not a good enough sync or reference, then the word "pueblo" appeared on the screen.
so i am just saying, all of that.
x.
ps.
g, have started on the audiobook, the martian is great, i needed a book to listen to while doing some spring gardening, excited to hear the rest of the story.
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Great to hear that, I'm sure you'll enjoy it. I'm afraid I have to disqualify myself from the nicotine dreams experiment, for the time being at least. If I had known about this about five years ago I would have been eager to try it, but I've been having trouble sleeping for a while now and it's really disruptive. Also, I'm an ex-smoker, so I'm a bit worried about that. I am still very interested in the results you or any other participants get, so please do go ahead with the experiment.
Excuse the infrequent posts, I seem to be a bit preoccupied with random happenings but all is well.
Meanwhile... Rick and Morty FTW! Here follows first scene of season 2, so - not sure if spoiler alert necessary.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbVvF5wWqf0
Then, next: Moonlight Sonata
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Tr0otuiQuU
Enjoy your time on Mars!
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hello g,
disqualifying for ex smoker reasons is good, not worth the risk for a basic experiment. and i get not wanting sleep disruption, a very annoying thing to experience.
i can handle the possible nightmares but it is the sleep disruption that i am least looking forward to. keeping a sleep journal for a month will also be annoying. i will probably start next week depending on what my plans for next week are.
when recently trying to quit smoking, in anticipation of not being able to sleep, i tried kava extract. cant say if it works or is a placebo, but it seemed to help with sleep.
i have watched 2 episodes of rick and morty so far, i dont understand what is going on. but i seem to like it. why does rick burp all the time.
asides from ghosts and groups, does anyone have any other ideas for how to train or pursue the paranormal or psi ? even basics like meditation or simple practices.
mr x.
ps.
what, we are tubing in this thread.
i have been watching old movies lately, good stuff.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUorM4nTX7k
ppss.
new maiden
https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=4&v=-F7A24f6gNc
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"why was the rule a thing?"
That is an interesting question, almost Hegelian in its reach.
Which is a neat coincidence, because it is with Hegel that this story begins.
The federal government used to audit the welfare programs of each state, and apply a financial penalty when the audit threw up discrepancies beyond a fixed allowable percentage. The state of New Mexico was audited, the discrepancy was found to be extreme, and the state was threatened with a fine of gigantic proportions.
The attorney asked by the state to prepare a defence decided to deploy what he called the Hegelian option.
Basically, although he did not describe it in exactly this way, he was preparing to argue that while plains indians are cheerful ragamuffins and can be treated as such, and beaten into line when necessary, pueblo indians on the other hand are delicate flowers who would be snuffed out if a bureaucratic agency hammered too hard on their spiritually based inability to be precise with facts and figures.
Therefore, since the pueblo indians are almost all in New Mexico (with some in Arizona), the state of New Mexico should be allowed a much higher discrepancy in the benefit program audit than other states were allowed.
Certain ethnographical data was to be collected in support of this argument, the group and the rule (which was indeed a thing) were part of this collection effort.
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hello ju4o,
a few questions,
could you please explain the hegel / hegelian part, i have looked him up online but just asking what you think of when you say the hegelian option or your thoughts on hegel in general.
how did the rule come about as instructions for the data collectors ?
where you there at the tree and saw the man touch the tree with your own eyes, or is that a story from somewhere else ? if you were there, how did you come to be there, or i am asking for more context.
funnily enough, this month i will be going on a journey with miss - for a few days, hundreds of miles. there i will find a tree that has significance. i want to know more about your story before then. i will take a photo of the tree when i find it. this adventure is the culmination of state audits and massive (tax) fines being finally over.
g, that audiobook was awesome, exciting interesting and i ended up just sitting at my computer listening to it, like people must of done with radio shows in the old days. made me want to know more science stuff just for survival.
x.
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https://pervegalit.wordpress.com/2012/06/09/how-to-fake-your-way-through-hegel/ (https://pervegalit.wordpress.com/2012/06/09/how-to-fake-your-way-through-hegel/)
The idea that one can never read Hegel — only re-read Hegel — is in itself wonderfully Hegelian
.
true and tried...
[=i also googled Hegel until steam came out of my ears.]
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"I also googled Hegel until steam came out of my ears"
Well please be careful. According to J.S.Mill,
"I found by actual experience of Hegel that conversancy with him tends to deprave one's intellect"
Personally I am not going to even try to pursue the Hegelian aspects of this story, I only mentioned Hegel because that is what the attorney said. By the way it is a true story and not a quote, it is first hand.
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Well please be careful. According to J.S.Mill,
"I found by actual experience of Hegel that conversancy with him tends to deprave one's intellect"
true and tried, i can say after some more googling, as the Jew who saw in a Sidur [=prayer book] in the synagogue a hand-written note: 'thick-bearded - dumb; thin bearded - wise." he got enraged: what? I am I stupid??" and began plucking hairs from his beard.
than he added another note in the Sidur:
"tried and true."
(one of my late dad's favorite anecdotes.)
luckily i kept the other advise of the author of "only re-read Hegel" namely:
Read only tertiary literature. 8)
... Read literature that refers to literature about Hegel.
!
so - J.S.Mill, adequately tertiarilay:
For some time after I had finished the book all such words as reflexion, development, evolution, &c., gave me a sort of sickening feeling which I have not yet entirely got rid of.
http://nforum.ncatlab.org/discussion/4117/the-wiki-history-of-the-universe/ (http://nforum.ncatlab.org/discussion/4117/the-wiki-history-of-the-universe/)
that's tough!
curiouser and curouser!
calls for wildest :o conspiraitons!
a post hypnotic reaction?
was J.s. Mill exposed to something like "hidden adds" or a card game running behind the curtains?
how come all those intelligent guys feel so intensely obliged to pretend to be conversant with Hegel?
does it have to do with Christianity?
is one who socialize with Hegel&company sent screaming and kicking directly to heaven?? :o
Ju4o:I only mentioned Hegel because that is what the attorney said.
The attorney asked by the state to prepare a defence decided to deploy what he called the Hegelian option.
Basically, although he did not describe it in exactly this way,
so - in what way DiD he describe it?
P.S.: "obtaining preview?" that's a penalty for fetching first hand British Jargon?
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By the way it is a true story and not a quote, it is first hand.
cool, i was just checking.
how did you come to be part of the data collectors, i am curious, it seems like some anthropology or social science . aside from the tree event, what else did you see or experience during those investigations that could be relevant.
is there any psi training you could recommend that i could attempt while trying to find a tree hundreds of miles away ?
this recent sunday i had a big burst of weirdness. the tree finding business was involved. i will post that story upstairs when i have time.
if anyone had anything weird happen over this past weekend i would like to hear it.
later on sunday, through a friend i recently connected with, i learned of a private residential address that is haunted. access granted.
mr x.
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just putting this out there as an possible point of discussion,
feelings,
yep, good old fashioned feelings. like thoughts, but something else.
where do they fit in in the pursuit of the paranormal. if some one were training psychic or psi things, feelings are going to come into it.
i am not much of a feelings person, i like to keep that stuff in check, generally not listen to feelings. so i am quite interested in this topic.
mr x.
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dj called it "a path with heart", X. no other way to tap into it but follow your heart. your feelings.
telepaths are called "empaths", for a reason.
the crumbles that makes Hansel and Gretel path to come back home -
they are crumbles of feelings.
of soul?
messy old emotions, yes.
(http://www.aceshowbiz.com/images/still/hansel-gretel-get-baked-pstr04.jpg)
~
(http://www.aceshowbiz.com/images/still/hansel-gretel-420-witch-pstr01.jpg)
~
(http://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/56645145.jpg)
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(https://hologramit.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/d794d79ed79bd7a9d7a4d794-1.jpg)
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If psi works because of quantum entanglement, and if entanglement can be harnessed to remotely create more entanglement ... a sort of cascading entanglement ...
then there is the possibility of a chain reaction that could exponentially amplify the weak and not very useful fizzing of natural psi into the intimations of incandescent power sung in myth which join space with time and make the world go round
(see opening post of this thread).
Don Juan had explained that the body and the energy body were two conglomerates of energy fields compressed together by some strange agglutinizing force. He had emphasized no end that the force that binds that group of energy fields together was, according to the sorcerers of ancient Mexico, the most mysterious force in the universe. His personal estimation was that it was the pure essence of the entire cosmos, the sum total of everything there is.
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Quote from: ju4o on 04 October 2015 04:26:49 PM
Well please be careful. According to J.S.Mill,
"I found by actual experience of Hegel that conversancy with him tends to deprave one's intellect"
...
so - J.S.Mill, adequately tertialy:
Quote
For some time after I had finished the book all such words as reflexion, development, evolution, &c., gave me a sort of sickening feeling which I have not yet entirely got rid of.
http://nforum.ncatlab.org/discussion/4117/the-wiki-history-of-the-universe/
a post hypnotic reaction?
was J.s. Mill exposed to something like "hidden adds" or a card game running behind the curtains?
how come all those intelligent guys feel so intensely obliged to pretend to be conversant with Hegel?
is one who socialize with Hegel&company sent screaming and kicking directly to heaven?? :o
(http://zone.forum4.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=101.0;attach=348;image)
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we seem to be on similar pages mr j. sorta.
i find it interesting that some people seem to bring syncs forth more than others. the question is why, how, or is that even a thing.
for instance g seems to be an high sync person, at least when he interacts with f4 he is, we dont know how life is without that boost. having a high entanglement rating could be confused for low level psychicness.
ive recently had quite a few moments of notice able 2a content. such as deciding to watch the pilot of a show called black sails, pirate show. as watching, person who i had only started talking to in past 24 hours after a year or so break, sends me link to a tube of a pirate song. then starts talking about asscreed - black flag, pirate game. very syncy and strangely coincidental but ultimately just background noise.
2b, however. as a very casual test idea. pick someone close to you, that you interact with often enough. focus on them. think about them. when you are not thinking about something else, think about them. focus on them. that focus should fill the gaps between all other thoughts. see what happens over time.
mr x.
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see what happens over time.
depend on the emotion you send.
edit: what is the test subject anyway?
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hello all,
as there is not else happening. 2b tests seems okay.
as mr g does not seem to return, mr j we may as well try getting into each others minds.
it is worth and try before the forum becomes silent.
mr x.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Uee_mcxvrw
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Yes missing Mr G. G is a rounded warm letter, and I would add that it has the same components as J (a horizontal bar and a curve) so I immediately felt empathy with him even before he opened his mouth. And conversing with him is so pleasant that after he did open his mouth I felt even more empathy.
By the way, not that it is relevant to the question of whether we are missing him, but I can confirm that for me synchros having anything to do with this forum have completely dropped off.
Yes it does seem to be true that some people bring forth synchros more than others, and for reasons which are not very clear to me I get the impression that quite often they would rather not have it that way.
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hello,
perhap that is the test. could we somehow focus on g, and summon him. if some sync happened in his life, so strong he comes here to report it.
it is fair to say that with limited activitys on the forum there would be limited syncs. but yes i think for whatever reason syncs seem more active when g was participation.
people not wanting it that way is very interested. very understandable. there is also the thing where it will all get to them anyway, wether they want it or not.*
mr x.
*
i remember at an point of guessing games, g wondering if he was being hacked. i hope that didnt spook him. all guessing games were legit as far as my end goes. if that spooked him then further stories of the anti toltecs he likes would not be palatable.
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unpalatable anti toltec:
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hmm... i'm not Mr g, and this is hardly a synchro - but anyway, i found a dream written, from 13/4/16:
bus, arriving to a camping. fensed area. cafateria. talking to a woman\girl, persuading a curly young man, nerd looking, eye glasses, pale skin, to climb a tower with me - stairs to high levels. he goes, i try a shortcut - kind of veranda, requires a bit of climbing (over its rail) - not too difficult, but, as if gravity got immense, i can't move.
eventually i recover, cross the rails back, ascend the regular stairs. the boy went upstairs and now coming back, pissed, completely mad: "you let me go alone, ha? i'll tell them! i'll tell them you told me to climb up (for which they will shut me on the spot), i'll tell them ...(something else for which they will shoot me on the spot - if they won't shoot me merely for being there) people pass by, he fulfills his threat, tells them. an (uncharacteristic) deadly fear - death any minute, no way out - they don't shoot for some reason. a wide area, armed people are walking by - the end! but no one shoots.
woke needing couple of hours more sleep to recover. a hypnogogic vision on falling back to sleep: little electric black square plastic box - "0" wriiten on it. thought:
"need to be replaced! into? : 0 in power0!"
burst into laughter, which woke me. (no clue what was so funny).
later (that day?) i red on-line something about a box the size of match-box all polititians (aledgedly) secretly wore under their lepels during the 60-70, which transmitted a hissing, electric static sound, aimed at keeping their mood uplifted, against woodo-like stuff, that was transmitted around them routinely to let down their mood and judgment.
maybe it's about the static sound*, most of the time sounds like waves, which my lap-top is making recently - and is it good? or is it bad? it's heavy anyway. and music is mostly disabled - the slow mod of my mothly cycle...
*i mentioned this - saying my lap-top plays sound of the dark sea of concouseness - in the shout box conversation with nemo, in the middle of which he banned me, gathered all my threads on that board into a geto forum and since i deleted all, he re-loaded them and banned me from writing/editing/deleting on "my own" forum. but i also mentioned tamahtufa, net of karma, the narrative that keeps being deleted...