Author Topic: general supernatural exploration - part 1  (Read 172880 times)

Mr X

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Re: general supernatural exploration
« Reply #105 on: 13 June 2015 12:56:18 AM »
hello g and j,

letter rounds are extremely interesting. i do not understand the hoot.

i read the round in the past day or so, i had been wondering if the g method could be solved with and calculation. i am impressed and enjoyed reading it.

adding other languages is also something i have been thinking about. hypothetically in an true telepathy test, a word you do not know seems more likely to stand out compared to the million english words. what if the word was in xhosa. how do we verify.

there are currently no plans for round three of the numbers.

i think j should try informally crafting and system. mr j bond, what would you consider to be and good test of the supernatural ?

with the isbn method i thought i would be crafty, if  the code can be broken and the word detected, i would choose and book and do the calculations and post the number and see if it could be easily detected.
the book is next to me as i type. the isbn is not 13 numbers. 10 numbers. there is and isbn13 number on amazon with the isbn10 number, both are different from the isbn10 numbers on the spine of the book. i was about to run some numbers and pick an word for testing and it got complicated.

mr x.

tally-ho!

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Re: general supernatural exploration
« Reply #106 on: 13 June 2015 05:47:54 PM »
hallol x-san

?הַגְּדוּשָׁה רָחֲפְתְךָ בִּצְלוֹפַחִים
ּּּּּּּּ?וּזְאֵבִים בַּל יֵרָאוּ בַּה

?וּמַהּ צֶבַע כּוֹבַעוֹ הַמְּשֻׁלַשׁ שַׁל הֶחַתּוּל

ָ,וְאַן פַּּנֵיה
?צִפּוֹרָה נֶחְמֶדַת

...אִם לֹא מֵאַרְצוׁת הַקֹר הָהֵן
?לֹא

...חֲבָל
  :'(עָל תַּפּוּחַ שֶׁנַּפַל
...מֶרֹאשׁ הָעֶץ
אָהוֹי כַּנְטַלָהּ
בַּרִ^י(כְּ) מָנְטָלַה
טַרֻי וָצַ'קָ[ת]
רַתּוּי מֻ(מ)רַטָּ[ת]
כָּהָר מַרֲטָה
טָרִיק בָּרְבַּרֻ רָטַּטֻהִי
אֲשַּׁתֻּהִי
הוֹי!

~נהפכ נהפכ ונהפכ~

ju4o

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Re: general supernatural exploration
« Reply #107 on: 14 June 2015 11:03:06 AM »
"i do not understand the hoot."

Why is it a hoot?  Good question.

Well one reason it is a hoot is because it just is.  The other reason is that it might be just about the most paranormal thing which has happened in Round A.

For Mr G's method to work as it should, both the ISBN (concatenated with line-number etc) and the secret word should ideally be primes, in order to make the product a semiprime:

Quote
Among the b-bit numbers, the most difficult to factor in practice using existing algorithms are those that are products of two primes of similar size.

(~wiki)

and also, of course, the procedure needs to be suitably adjusted in order to make all the numbers much longer; a semiprime of around 250 digits is probably long enough to defeat current technology, but the goalposts move every year.

Quote
On December 12, 2009, a team including researchers from the CWI, the EPFL, INRIA and NTT in addition to the authors of the previous record factored RSA-768, a 232-digit semiprime. They used the equivalent of almost 2000 years of computing on a single core 2.2 GHz AMD Opteron.

So by making at least one of the numbers prime (even though it does not have nearly enough digits to be viable) the powers that guided Mr G's design for Round A had their little hoot.

The unlikeliness of a 20-digit number starting with '978' being prime is about 1 in 46, according to the prime number theorem, which says that the chance of n being prime is, for large n, approx 1 in ln n, where 'ln' means natural logarithm:



If the unlikeliness had been less than 1 in 20, it would have been not worthy of note; if it had been more than 1 in 50, one would have had to wonder if Mr G had planned it that way.

Between 1 in 20 and 1 in 50 is the sweet spot.

For comparison, recall that Round 1 achieved an unlikeliness of about 1 in 27, and Round 2 about 1 in 23, both sweet.

P.S. Z could you translate please?

Mr G

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Re: general supernatural exploration
« Reply #108 on: 15 June 2015 01:20:02 PM »
Thanks Mr J. Welcome back X, unfortunately the letter rounds were a bust, as you saw.

Before I say anything further, could you please explain in detail what on earth made you choose Xhosa as the language in your example?

Ms Z, have you invented a new code? Should we try and guess the meaning?

Mr X

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Re: general supernatural exploration
« Reply #109 on: 15 June 2015 07:56:01 PM »
hello,

j, i cant say i understand 100% but thanks for the explanation. after the explainer, any not understanding is my problem.
after reading it over and over, it is very curious. this is why exploring together is good, other human brains to process information and think thoughts you would never think without their input.

1-20 makes sense. anything less than would just be easy chance. if it was pick and number any number, 1-21, one guess only. guess one is correct. in the sweet spot but still within the realm of chance.

50+ is what i am not sure about. it is based on distrusts and the ideas of people lying and manipulation the outcome, collusion and deceit. if we generated and 1 in 1000 result, should we just ignore it because it is not sweet and we are all scoundrels. there has to be and system that remove our human imperfections.
send and snail mail letter, guessing round happens during transit, numbers revealed by verifier on arrival ? could be still be collusion.

the upper end of the sweet spot is very interesting.

g,

i apologize, i have frantically googled and searched my browser history for the word that sparked the thought of xhosa. i cant find it or remember it. there were are bunch of words, spanish, scottish, german, one xhosa that i was googling as they were appearing not so much in my mind but in my mental overflow. for instance if your mind were full, and there were other thoughts trying to get in, overflow.

i thought it meant something like "council" when i looked it up but i cant remember. it was not something worth noting down at the time but it left and impression enough to use xhosa as the example. google keeps leading back to bantu and ubuntu, i dont think that was it. (does anyone know of and global dictionary, that has all words on the one website ?)

?z, your post looks upside down or backwards. what is the translation

mr x.

Mr G

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Re: general supernatural exploration
« Reply #110 on: 15 June 2015 08:50:58 PM »
Was it Indaba?

Well, I think this will blow the sweet spot clear out of the water. After J4 said I should choose a more "unlikely" book, I rummaged through a cupboard and picked this:

http://www.amazon.com/Clicking-Xhosa-Phrasebook-English-Edition/dp/0864863772

Soon after I realised what the problem was and decided to leave it.

Of course, you could choose not to believe it, but that doesn't solve my problem.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-bY0UmcyQQ


tally-ho!

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Re: general supernatural exploration
« Reply #111 on: 15 June 2015 09:43:54 PM »
welcome back, Mr X the strange. buisness were successful?
Quote
Ju4o: P.S. Z could you translate please?
oh damm. i wrote this nonsense feeling so light- hearted, for i was NOT going to translate it...
it's harsh stuff to translate;  paraphrasing poems well-known over here.
here's a tupe:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Uqn-Gd0XD8
and the other's - children's song:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CWT4QbFPZ8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CWT4QbFPZ8)
(i copy them links though my lap-topo refuses recently to play any tupes.)
poem 1 is well-known as - everybody learned it in school (in my days; i don't know what they teach this days - maybe David Avidan? {a revolutionary modernist, it's like suggesting -  Timothy Liry?}

anyway -
it's paraphrasing 1) Bialick's, "the national poet"s, first poem,
אל הציפור - to the bird (awful translation! i would make it, less literal' ore poetical, "halol, bird!"
you won't believe - but when i was kid, it was not that far from spoken language, (as well as the bible. when we learned Genesis at 1st grade, i was surprized to find i understood each word on reading. later i lost this talent. but later yet i discovered my strange "supernatural" talent to receive any text in Aghurah language along with the translation - but no. it's not just a personal thing. the spoken language have changed so badly ever since - and for the worst. at times it seems to me  the evil guys did it deliberately to irritate me. )
(well - the idea of affecting a language deliberately is not a a joke. not always. we, the team of Future Changers (http://spiritualitydiscussiongroup.yuku.com/topic/876/Future-Changing-the-manual (http://spiritualitydiscussiongroup.yuku.com/topic/876/Future-Changing-the-manual)) [a major supernatural technique, besides  :) ) from Taghuwar [= the native name of "Atlantis"]
[in past life, that is) put lot of effort into the future development of Hebrew -her nearest (gemamtically at least) "doughter language" of Aghurah

...i stop here to go to sleep - already broke my decision to avoid going deep into the night again.
will comtinue hopefully tomorrow.
nana tov.
Ms Z, have you invented a new code? Should we try and guess the meaning? (http://Ms Z, have you invented a new code? Should we try and guess the meaning?)
G - a new code? not that i'm aware of... but... you can geuss anyway... maybe you can save me that weird translasion job after all...
אָהוֹי כַּנְטַלָהּ
בַּרִ^י(כְּ) מָנְטָלַה
טַרֻי וָצַ'קָ[ת]
רַתּוּי מֻ(מ)רַטָּ[ת]
כָּהָר מַרֲטָה
טָרִיק בָּרְבַּרֻ רָטַּטֻהִי
אֲשַּׁתֻּהִי
הוֹי!

~נהפכ נהפכ ונהפכ~

tally-ho!

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Re: general supernatural exploration
« Reply #112 on: 16 June 2015 01:36:44 PM »
ok, me continue

in a coffee-shop again - the flat i rent still have to have kitchen basin and so on implemented, and the Niagara pours her water too slowly, so that which is to be Flash-Gordoned is sticking, and the shower cubicle letting water pour all over the floor,  fixed higher than the rooms' floors, thus water pours far...
so i let my land-lord work - he does it himself - 5 days late, but better then never-mind - and took my dog to go to the single coffee-shop in my new weird weird town, near the train-station, that was basically build by the Ottoman Turks. :o


[url]X: ?z, your post looks upside down or backwards. what is the translation  ::)  )
it's HEBREW X - stranger then strangeland,  written from left to right.
[sigh...] seems the 3 of you want a translation...
so i'll have to work on it, or be IMPOLITE.

Quote
Mr G:
Ms Z, have you invented a new code? Should we try and guess the meaning?
well... this gives me an idea.

actually she (Aghurah) is one of [a finite number? if i understand correctly, yes] of "real languages", which are the programming languages by which the universes are programmed; each defined by her own  set of definitions ["exioms] ["phisycal lows"].

the catch is - ever since the Tamahtufah been closed, no one can speak (or telepath) it - since she is telepathic language.
that is to say: parts of the language are telepathic - spoken by thought/mind and not by the mouth.
(originally it could be spoken either by thought only or by mouth+thought; but only humans and Carth^akhashim - a certain dog-like carnivour mammal which do not exist here anymore - could speak it by mouth; on earth, that is. 

so -
is it good enough for you 3 (unless tosk decides to shaw up with and opinion too) if  i translate it into Aghurah?
אָהוֹי כַּנְטַלָהּ
בַּרִ^י(כְּ) מָנְטָלַה
טַרֻי וָצַ'קָ[ת]
רַתּוּי מֻ(מ)רַטָּ[ת]
כָּהָר מַרֲטָה
טָרִיק בָּרְבַּרֻ רָטַּטֻהִי
אֲשַּׁתֻּהִי
הוֹי!

~נהפכ נהפכ ונהפכ~

Mr X

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Re: general supernatural exploration
« Reply #113 on: 17 June 2015 08:57:34 AM »
Was it Indaba?

yes that was the word. i can say that with certainty, easy to repeat/verify my thought process by googling "indaba word", this was the page that left the word "council" in my mind,
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/indaba

i actually felt irrationally bad for not being able to provide you with the  xhosa sparking word, i spent time (30-60 minutes) trying to recreate/remember the word and felt i had failed. then you gave me the word again. and i thought "what the fuck".

is indaba an zulu word or xhosa or and common word ?

for disclosure, i dont like overflow, it is like an undesirable side effect, not worth an version/extract. i know how to recreate the conditions for overflow in my mind, but it is not pleasant, to the extreme.

g, if you are not fucking with me, and this xhosa book business is for real, my response is - we have stumbled upon some weirdness. i dont know what to think about that.

do you have and digital camera or phone to take and photo of the book. and upload it to and generic image host like imgur then post the image here. for my own curiosity.

from my view the word weirdness is just syncs echoing from the holding versions as i retreated back to version 2. nothing new but still amusing and noticeable.

your view however, what is that. i saw the post containing indaba within hours of you posting it. my first reaction was "yes, correct", followed by "this is fucking weird...what the fuck". then once i had time to over think it "if g is messing with me it would be funny, but if he isnt, what the fuck". while i still dont agree with the upper limit being 1-50, i do understand wanting to keep things within reasonable limits.

after hearing this song 13 times in the past few days, i like it,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9_isl1jjHc

weirdness
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlZI1Uf07xk

i like this tupe
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bosouX_d8Y

x.

Mr G

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Re: general supernatural exploration
« Reply #114 on: 17 June 2015 01:49:37 PM »


Sorry, it's a bit dirty. I must have spilled something on it but I can't remember what.

Yes, indaba means the same thing in Zulu and Xhosa. Where did you come across it?

What do mean by overflow?

ju4o

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Re: general supernatural exploration
« Reply #115 on: 18 June 2015 08:58:08 PM »
 
That is pretty wonderful.

I think what is most impressive is the way in which Mr Paranormal managed to recruit Mr G's and Mr X's minds in such a way as to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat, and make Round B a rip-roaring success even though Mr G got cold feet shortly after choosing the book.


Mr X

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Re: general supernatural exploration
« Reply #116 on: 19 June 2015 12:25:16 AM »
hello g,

firstly, im amused at how my mind fairly quickly got defensive over this sync. i went from thinking it was good sync, to wait a minute what if yadda yadda, and back again.

i didnt notice the spots on the book until you mentioned it. i was more focused on the bright color of the picture and the background. it looks like my desk.

i dont have and good explainer for indaba.
i said it out loud (inda-ba) and googled it. i did so because i was actually annoyed at the words repeating involuntarily and thought if i knew what they meant, if they were anything more than gibberish, that might break it. desperate but appropriate attempt at managing the overflow. this must sound very weird, but i am used to it.

and good way of explaining overflow would be and combination of perceptual tourettes and autism "stimming". i have neither of those conditions but conceptually that is not and bad description.
when the mind is at is limits. overflow is the sound of the mind breaking, and repairing. from my view it is and side effect of the less than desirable methods in version1v1, such as using easily gathered tangible resources such as stress and fear, combined to generate artificial intangible anxiety to drive introspection.
(do not do that, seriously) it is only temporary. mostly.

wiki description of the word is also good.

arithmetic overflow, a condition that occurs when a calculation produces a result that is greater than what a given register can store or represent

buffer overflow, a situation whereby the incoming data size exceeds that which can be accommodated by a buffer.


ps.
funnily, just as i was thinking i should check into forum4. i was walking through and dark room, as i turned on the light to the ensuite, my assistant (i have asked if she wanted and letter, she asked if she can be and number, then made no choice), lets call her miss -, sat upright and started speaking gibberish. "do you want yaddayadda.....do you want a card...do you want a card of water" when i realized she didnt even know she was awake, i asked if she needs some water, and she asked if i need a torch. this just and stupid story, but i felt like telling it.

x.

Mr G

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Re: general supernatural exploration
« Reply #117 on: 19 June 2015 01:41:22 PM »
Gentlemen and lady, this is a lot to process, and I am unable to respond properly now.

I hope you have a good weekend, and I'll talk to you soon.

Cheers!

tally-ho!

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Re: general supernatural exploration
« Reply #118 on: 19 June 2015 11:33:51 PM »
]Ju4o -
who is  Mr Paranormal?
  X san -
 
Quote
i was actually annoyed at the words repeating involuntarily and thought if i knew what they meant, if they were anything more than gibberish, that might break it. desperate but appropriate attempt at managing the overflow. this must sound very weird, but i am used to it.
how elegant!
desperate but appropriate...
in "stranger in a strange land", by Robert Hyineline:
 a guy who was left on mars as a baby returns extremely advanced. to help humans ascend he teaches them super- advanced marsian language, which by  merely anderstanding its conscepts one ascends, so to speak. naturally he bcomes the new Massia, and crusifiction is on schedule...

when cups comming to errest him, he preaches. they shoot his ear off, he preaches on. his fans cheering: "you have style, michael! elegant as usual!" 
 well - i am no match for such elegance. reading your ramble, i'm full of rage
 rage.

some verses in the real super language:

ps - X-strange, feel free to ping me back.
« Last Edit: 19 June 2015 11:56:12 PM by tally-ho! »
אָהוֹי כַּנְטַלָהּ
בַּרִ^י(כְּ) מָנְטָלַה
טַרֻי וָצַ'קָ[ת]
רַתּוּי מֻ(מ)רַטָּ[ת]
כָּהָר מַרֲטָה
טָרִיק בָּרְבַּרֻ רָטַּטֻהִי
אֲשַּׁתֻּהִי
הוֹי!

~נהפכ נהפכ ונהפכ~

ju4o

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Re: general supernatural exploration
« Reply #119 on: 20 June 2015 03:25:50 PM »
"who is Mr Paranormal?"

Hello Ms Z.  Conceptually, Mr Paranormal is an explanatory anthropomorphism.  The first question I would like to consider is, whether an explanation is called for.

When Mr G announced the rules for Round A, I envisaged we might have some fun.  For the purposes of this post I would like to present an imagined sequence of events.  Let us imagine that Mr G would have reached across from his desk to the nearest bookshelf and taken out the first book which came to hand.  For example,



The ISBN is 9781461374930.

Let us then imagine that he would have opened this book at random and selected the first word upon which his eye lit:



The word is 'parameterization' on page 19, line 8, word 3.

So, in this example, the two numbers which he would have multiplied together are 97814613749300190803 and 0111000001100001011100100110000101101101011001010111010001100101
0111001001101001011110100110000101110100011010010110111101101110 (base 2), which gives 14611498900249997356682144316044411105508199092393145435306.

So (remember, this is an imagined sequence of events) he would then have posted in the forum, saying that the number for Round A is 14611498900249997356682144316044411105508199092393145435306.

I would then have read Mr G's post, and pasted his number into wolfram alpha:



From the results of that I would choose the number beginning with '978' (hopefully there will be only one, as there is in this case) and paste it back into wolfram alpha, dividing it into the original number and requesting the result in base 16:



The result is 706172616d65746572697a6174696f6e, which I would finally paste into the conversion utility and request conversion from hex to text:



which gives the result 'parameterization'.

I would then hurry back to the forum, and the dialogue could have gone something like this:

Quote
Mr G: OK folks, ready get set go.  For Round A the number is 14611498900249997356682144316044411105508199092393145435306

J4: Interesting.  I guess 'parameterization'.

Mr G: Correct.

Well, as you all know, it didn't exactly happen like that.  What went wrong is that Mr G, for Round A, not only chose a 3-letter word, but he went so far as to tell us in advance that it was a simple 3-letter word.  I immediately felt that to correctly guess the word 'hat', given that we had been told in advance that the word was only 3 letters, would be so darned unimpressive that I couldn't bring myself to do it.  Therefore I had to choose another tack, as we have seen.

But my question now is this:  what if Round A had gone like I imagined it could?  What would people think?