general supernatural exploration - part 1

[tally-ho!]

talli-ho san (loved this nick, ju4o) yes, i did think a number and never posted it - what round was it? anyway right  when x said than dreaming is as legitimate way to pick a umber as any - closed my eyes' saw "the tunnel" and expected to see a number - instead i heared it (said?) 17.
then someone wrote somewhere no no no' the number is incorrect, so i tried again and it (?) said 15.
- 15?
_between 15 and 17 (meaning 15\16\17?
but 17 feels more serious.)

this is indeed interested, regarding 15 and 17:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weeping_Willow_(Law_%26_Order:_Criminal_Intent) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weeping_Willow_(Law_%26_Order:_Criminal_Intent))
it anything connected to whatever?

[Mr X]

hello g j z,

first g, your system seems, i belief the right terminology is - very awesome.
i have had to read over than many times to understand, as and non expert i like it. encryption and distribution and verification in one set of numbers.
am i correct in thinking the system is scalable or can be modified for range ?

some thoughts -
the range of and million seems daunting, compared to 1-30/50. but it also makes sense. the possibilty of syncs just from wrong guesses and the possibility of super syncs. the possibilty of getting the word right and the book wrong.

regarding "football", the easiest version of the book i could find was
http://www.physixfan.com/wp-content/files/GEBen.pdf
96 10 1 is "the". do isbn change with different prints of the same book.

there is and flaw in round a. with g holding the word, who is going to guess. g is our prime guesser. making hundreds of thousands of guesses could take some time.

there was something in round one i forgot to say, so i didnt do it. something about repeating the numbers in my mind at intervals, like on the hour during the day. due to the telepathy, seemed logical that i had to think the thing. i did think the numbers casually but not on and schedule.

hypothetically, telepathy doesnt seems like something where you reach into and persons mind and take some information against their will. it is like talking, someone offers some information, the others persons hears it and replys.  so if you where going to hold and one in and million word, sending the signal or thinking the thought (or saying it outloud, or writing down on paper) seems like and good idea.

i have noticed and flaw with the passworded file, with and small range and the password being and small sequence, an computer could calculate all possible passwords and open up even the most heavily encrypted file. easily. so even the guessers could break the system and appear to be psychic.

z,
i havent overcome, but contained. my day started well today, when i woke up there was an cat sleeping on my couch. and neighborhood cat. i call him **aghur.

[Mr X]

well,

i have been wanting to do and consumption ramble for at least and few days now. need to do it while i remember.

constant consumption or the holding pattern or version 2, as and subtle system, is easily breakable and easily repairable. it broke pretty quickly for myself after talking about it with g. forced unavoidable introspection is part of version 1.
version 2 is and extract of version 1. i personally used version 1 of version 1 to turn off and switch, in such and way that i could never return near that switch.

it is and open source idea, i have poorly described version nothing. whatever anyone were to think or do with that information would be for them - their version 1. and it would belong to that person. i cannot imagine what it would be like to have and version 1, based on version 2, and not knowing the first version. or version -1, or -2.

while the holding pattern or version 2 waits for nothing, for myself i have noticed version 1 holds something.
as and example of difference - version 2 goes on forever. it is limited only by the amount of time you have left alive. the story always ends the same, death. like and smooth sheet of metal it is consistent. its like and concept has certain core qualitys, and no matter how you shape it, those qualitys can be detected,
version 1 is more like and blade. sharp and to the point. it takes place over and period of time and reaches and crescendo. it has purpose and requires some discipline and it is unpleasant. it requires an assistant.

there is good discpline that you want, such as eating well and looking after yourself, and there is discipline that while being actual discipline, you dont want. such as the ability to drive and nail through your big toe without flinching, letting it heal, then doing it again. (no toes were hurt in the making of this ramble)

if and technique were and sentance, version 2 is one word. the sentance however i made for myself to solve my own problem. (and of course cause myself dozens of problems). this is and story where i aim to tell the truth, but do not aim to tell the full story.

it is possible to break version 1, but also possible to spread it out, slow it down, and observe it. lots to extract.

with version 2 sometimes on the fritz, i have been snooping around the very start of the holding pattern, before it had an name. looking for concepts to extract, incase i could figure out the side effect of super sync without having to actual return to the version 1 version 1. which i cannot do. as that is the design. and for and cobbled together poorly made badly thought out desperate system, version 1 version 1 was pretty dam effective. if and good shaman is walter white, version 1 was some crappy shake and bake garage job. but still.

this morning miss x berated me for exactly getting too close to "it", she called me out for being in the zone and getting to close. that i can never get that close again. "it will have consequences and you know it will" sort o thing, it was like she was reading my mind. she didnt know i was trying to sneak and peek of the default supernatural switch, yet called me out on all the things i am currently calling myself out on internally. soon after on and different topic she was following me around the house with her laptop after reading some news article, and human voice literally saying the words "dont give up on encryption !" (she knew i had been looking for encryption software).

due to the time requirement of version 1 there were limits on how often the cycle could repeat. other times i tried to use version 1 resulted in things such as talking with j outside of castanet. and eventually forum4. yadda yadda, now.

the thing is, i am not sure i can use the holding pattern to solve the problem of the holding pattern. version 1 is like and fast car with no seats. it will get you to your destination, but you wont sit back and enjoy it. easy to break. thinking i need and new system, something more careful, where flicking one switch doesnt flick an thousand.

disclamer, if have failed to in anyway communicate my view and everything i have said appears as gibberish, then that is the way it is.

i dispassionately and without effort chose some numbers for round 2, cant remember when, i think around the 1st of the month. using binary as and spoiler code, here is the sequence. before you choose to look note that the word that describes the image is in this code.
00110010 00110111 00101101 00110010 00110000 00101101 00110001 00110011
00101101 01110010 01101001 01110110 01100101 01110010

i have some business to attend to, will be away for and few days.

x

an existential crisis is an interesting thing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXPmYpUsQgk  (spoiler warning for the movie "kingsman")

[ju4o]

I'm sure it would be pretty easy to write a script to automate the process

Is that why round A hasn't started yet?

Heaven knows how many people are lining up champing at the bit ready to guess.

It doesn't need a script, you could just do it manually at least to begin with like in the example.

[Mr G]

Oh, sorry, I'll get to it soon. Hopefully tomorrow. In the mean time if you have anything to add to the process it would be welcome.

Mr X, this is just an interim reply, but to answer the first question: Yes, I think the range can be adapted. It can be limited to a specific list of words, or limited to a specific book if need be. "The Cat in the Hat" only uses 236 words, for instance. The range can also be expanded by including other languages.

There are a few other variables that should be nailed down, like do you treat headings as a line? I think yes, but I'm not sure if there are existing conventions about this. Again, any suggestions are welcome.

Good evening to all.

[Mr G]

OK, Round A: Mostly a practice round.

I shall post 2 numbers here, for the first I'll give you the word to practice the procedure, the second will be an easy word to guess.

First number: (Copy the following number into a text editor, including the base and / operator)

43879027289515375637879631197466 base 10 /

Open a tab with the text to binary converter: http://www.unit-conversion.info/texttools/convert-text-to-binary/

The word here is "human". Type it into the text field, do not press Enter.

Select and copy the binary output. Paste it after the number and / operator, delete all the spaces between the binary numbers and add " base 2" at the end.

Select and copy the resulting text. Open a tab for Wolfram Alpha: http://www.wolframalpha.com/

Paste the line into the field in Wolfram Alpha and press Enter or click =

Look for the result in decimal form. If you hover the mouse pointer over it, it will reveal an option labeled "A" which will make the text copyable. Copy and paste it into your text editor.

Select the first 13 digits and paste it into Google. This should show you the book. If you search by title and add "google books" to the search term, you will find a preview.

The last seven digits give you the page number, line number and word number (PPPLLWW).

***

Okay, now for the actual experiment. I have chosen a simple, 3 letter word to start us off. I have avoided pages with complications such as titles and diagrams and have found a previewable version in google books.

Have fun!

669065629724685784603345396

or, use the following template:

669065629724685784603345396 base 10 / <insert binary number here and remove spaces> base 2

[ju4o]

Maybe that would be one letter too many.

[Mr G]

That would indeed 

[ju4o]

According to http://www.freescrabbledictionary.com/sowpods/ (http://www.freescrabbledictionary.com/sowpods/) there are 124 two-letter words in scrabble and 1311 three-letter words.

One can just about imagine someone going through the two-letter word list until they get a match.  It would be an unusual way of having fun but not impossible.

But 1311 three-letter words feels like too many.

However, maybe all is not lost.

What if we start by thinking of what book Mr G is likely to choose from.  His first example was Godel, Escher, Bach: an Eternal Golden Braid.  This makes it quite likely that (assuming he doesn't want to use the same book twice running) his next choice will be from the writings of Douglas Adams.  Let us look at the three-letter words which occur in the Dirk Gently books.

To make things a bit easier, let us guess that Mr G is kindly not going to have chosen a word at the beginning of a sentence with a capital letter, it would feel not random enough.

Here is a list of the remaining words he might have chosen from (ignoring tiresome details like apostrophes and hyphens):

act add ads age ago aid aim air all alt and ane any are arm art ash ask ate awe axe bad bag bal bar bat bed beg bet bid big bin bit bob bow box boy bra bun bus but buy cab caf can cap car cat cnd cod cow coy cry cup cut day den dep dew did die dig dim din dog don dow dry due dug ear eat ebb eek eel eff egg end eye fag far fat fed fee few fey fig fit fix flu fly for fun fur gag gap gas gel get gin god got gun guy gym had hag ham has hat hay her hid him hip his hit hob hop hot how hug hum ice icy ill ion its ivy jam jar jaw jet job joy jug key kid kir lap law lay led leg let lid lie lip lit lot low lug mad man map maw max may med men met mix mle mor mud mug nag new nod non nor not now nut oaf oak obf odd off oil old one onx our out owe own pad pat pay pen per pie pig pit pop pot pub put ran rap rat red rev rid rim rip rly rod rom rot row rub rug rum run sad sat saw say sea see set sex she sip sir sit six sky sly sob son sue sum sun tan tap tea ted ten the tie tin tip ton too top tow toy try tug tum two urn use van vat via vim wad wan war was wax way web wet who why win wit won wry yes yet yew you zip

Well this is not so bad, we are down from 1311 words to 279 words.  By the way, some of these words look a bit odd: 'dep' for example;  however, referring back to the source, it turns out that the word does indeed occur:

I'm afraid I've got to work. Nicola's sick and I'm going to have to dep for her at the Wigmore on Friday week.

But it still feels like too many words.  Maybe if we sort them into decreasing order of frequency of how many times they occur in the books, things will get easier:

   7364 the
   4102 and
   2683 was
   1447 his
   1368 had
   1345 you
    975 for
    761 him
    714 but
    686 her
    634 she
    606 not
    560 all
    523 out
    443 one
    289 its
    269 way
    257 see
    256 who
    234 are
    227 off
    226 did
    221 any
    216 now
    193 get
    178 man
    155 can
    152 two
    147 got
    144 old
    139 few
    133 say
    131 own
    131 how
    125 put
    113 car
    108 air
    102 sat
     91 why
     91 too
     86 has
     86 day
     85 let
     76 new
     73 yes
     71 bit
     63 bed
     60 odd
     59 end
     58 lot
     56 lay
     53 our
     53 may
     53 ask
     52 top
     47 try
     47 set
     46 far
     45 sky
     44 saw
     44 big
     41 yet
     40 hat
     37 god
     34 ran
     33 eye
     33 arm
     32 led
     31 red
     31 low
     31 box
     29 tap
     29 boy
     28 sit
     27 use
     27 ago
     26 run
     26 hit
     25 sir
     25 sea
     25 pay
     25 bad
     22 buy
     21 pot
     21 job
     21 cat
     20 van
     20 ten
     20 mud
     18 hot
     18 dim
     17 fit
     16 sun
     16 mad
     15 men
     15 bag
     14 tea
     13 lit
     13 fat
     13 cut
     13 cup
     12 pop
     12 met
     12 bin
     12 bar
     11 wet
     11 per
     11 add
     10 tie
     10 son
     10 oak
     10 fed
     10 bow
      9 oil
      9 nod
      9 leg
      9 key
      9 age
      8 wad
      8 six
      8 sad
      8 guy
      8 fly
      8 bet
      7 war
      7 tin
      7 rid
      7 rap
      7 pen
      7 map
      7 ear
      7 don
      7 cry
      7 caf
      7 beg
      7 act
      6 tip
      6 pub
      6 lie
      6 ill
      6 eat
      6 dog
      5 via
      5 owe
      5 nor
      5 lip
      5 jet
      5 gas
      5 fun
      5 due
      5 art
      4 pig
      4 pie
      4 pad
      4 joy
      4 fag
      4 cab
      4 awe
      3 win
      3 tug
      3 sum
      3 sip
      3 row
      3 lid
      3 law
      3 kid
      3 jam
      3 ice
      3 hum
      3 hug
      3 gap
      3 fur
      3 fix
      2 yew
      2 won
      2 web
      2 wax
      2 wan
      2 vim
      2 toy
      2 sue
      2 rip
      2 rim
      2 pit
      2 pat
      2 non
      2 mix
      2 max
      2 lug
      2 jaw
      2 icy
      2 hid
      2 hay
      2 gin
      2 gag
      2 fig
      2 ebb
      2 dig
      2 die
      2 cap
      2 bob
      2 bid
      2 ate
      2 aim
      2 aid
      1 zip
      1 wry
      1 wit
      1 vat
      1 urn
      1 tum
      1 tow
      1 ton
      1 ted
      1 tan
      1 sob
      1 sly
      1 sex
      1 rum
      1 rug
      1 rub
      1 rot
      1 rom
      1 rod
      1 rly
      1 rev
      1 rat
      1 onx
      1 obf
      1 oaf
      1 nut
      1 nag
      1 mug
      1 mor
      1 mle
      1 med
      1 maw
      1 lap
      1 kir
      1 jug
      1 jar
      1 ivy
      1 ion
      1 hop
      1 hob
      1 hip
      1 ham
      1 hag
      1 gym
      1 gun
      1 gel
      1 flu
      1 fey
      1 fee
      1 egg
      1 eff
      1 eel
      1 eek
      1 dug
      1 dry
      1 dow
      1 din
      1 dew
      1 dep
      1 den
      1 coy
      1 cow
      1 cod
      1 cnd
      1 bus
      1 bun
      1 bra
      1 bat
      1 bal
      1 axe
      1 ash
      1 ane
      1 alt
      1 ads

Well this is looking much more hopeful I think, and we can immediately rule out the most common words like 'the' and 'and'.

I mean, Mr G would be left feeling pretty foolish if he had chosen 'the', and someone guessed 'the' on their first try.

In fact, the same thing is true of the next several words on the list.

Actually one has to go quite far down the list before the words start getting interesting.  But I still can't imagine G choosing a word like "why, too, has, day".

Let us go on a bit further ... "our may ask top try" ... still pretty boring ... "big yet hat god" ... wait, I think we might have gone too far.  The chances of Mr G choosing 'god' are basically nil.

But what about that word sitting right in front of 'god'.  It has a nice smell to it and a definite Castanedan ring, which is more than can be said for any of the other words we've had so far.  Also, it is the name of our sister forum.

I think this should be our first choice.  Let us plug it in to Mr G's algorithm and see what happens.

[ju4o]

The 4 steps are, first:
http://www.unit-conversion.info/texttools/convert-text-to-binary/ (http://www.unit-conversion.info/texttools/convert-text-to-binary/)



Step 2 is, paste this result into wolfram alpha:
http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=669065629724685784603345396+base+10+%2F+011010000110000101110100+base+2 (http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=669065629724685784603345396+base+10+%2F+011010000110000101110100+base+2)



The first 13 digits of this result are supposed to be an ISBN and step 3 is to plug them into Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/s/url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=9780671746728 (http://www.amazon.com/s/url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=9780671746728)



Step 4, click on this result and look inside using the other digits of our result from wolfram which give the page number (47) line number (17) and word number (13):
http://www.amazon.com/reader/0671746723?_encoding=UTF8 (http://www.amazon.com/reader/0671746723?_encoding=UTF8)



It is enough to make one feel like Sherlock Holmes.

So I think Round A has been a smashing success.  Except, perhaps a trifle easy.  As we have seen, purely rational methods can lead us unerringly to the correct result so it is not a very good test of the supernatural.

For Round B if you would choose an unlikely book we would never even have dreamed you might have on your shelves, then there would be not only the pleasure of guessing but also of discovering, if successful, what this unlikely book is.

[Mr G]

That's one way of doing it... alternatively you could have followed my trail of sandwiches...

"The Cat in the Hat" --> "Cat's Cradle" --> "hat"

Also, if you missed j4's sublime pun... "that" would be one letter too many.

Thanks for the Amazon tip, Mr J.

Well, that does it for the practice round, I'll be sure to offer more of a challenge next time. However, as you rightly surmised, I have exhausted the number of books I have actually read. I may have to resort to lists like "The top 100" this or the other.

Good day 

[Mr G]

In fact, never mind. The system is trivially easy to crack without including another step which would make it even less user friendly.

I give up. Cheers.

[ju4o]

This is very interesting.  I think Mr G is beginning to small a rat.

Perhaps he does not believe my statement that it is "quite likely" that, given his first choice was a book by Douglas Hofstadter, his second choice would be a book by Douglas Adams.  In fact, I suspect he thinks that it would be a monstrously outrageous assumption.  And thoroughly unfair.

Well, maybe.

So perhaps he suspects that I actually used another method to solve Round A, and only pretended to be using the ludicrous method which I described.

Well, again, maybe.

The question is, what might this other (and possibly even more Sherlock-Holmesian) method have been.

One possibility would be to divide every word in the English language into Mr G's posted number, and see how many words divide cleanly with no remainder.  Hopefully only one or two words would do this, and then we have immediately narrowed the space of possibilities down to one or two words.

But assuming we do not resort to writing a computer program, this is impractical.

Is there is a way of solving Round A using only pencil-and-paper methods, plus clicking on websites like the ones Mr G has provided links for, but not using a calculator, and not even doing any mental arithmetic in our heads?

[Mr G]

An alternative might be to declare the first 4 digits of the ISBN.

Another EDIT: No scratch that. ISBNs are too predictable.

[ju4o]

Very nice.  With the interesting corollary that multiplying two numbers together may not be a very good way of hiding information about them.  In fact, the apparently simpler operationg of adding them together can sometimes be better.

If we start with the numbers 2 and 9, for example, and we multiply them together and publish the result '18', then everyone can immediately work out that the original numbers must have been either 2 and 9, or 3 and 6.

But if we add them together and publish the result '11', then the original numbers could have been 1 and 10, or 2 and 9, or 3 and 8, or 4 and 7, or 5 and 6, which is a much wider field of possibilities.