why cant you afford real life company all the time ?
because the people who get too close to me might get hurt.
unless the bond is undeniable, it is more healthy for people to keep some distance from me.
which telling them the above would just confuse them, usually, won't cause any effective action on their side. It's too science-fictional scene for most people to take seriously. It would have been for me, before life presented accumulating proof. They can only decide I'm paranoid or delusional (even when I'm clearly not).
i used to act in a way that would leave a wee bad taste at the end of a nice contact (usually when I move away.)
well, I don't need to do much, I can't return favors if-when-I want to… which creates enough bad taste. which drove me crazy… until I fully understood what calamities I am saving them from.
Now that it's just me, the only trouble is moving meters from ex good friends, as a total stranger. Peanuts, compared to other's (and some of my own's…) other troubles.
I apologize again, dear not-friends, though I doubt that it would clear anything.
took me long time to suspect i'm doing it deliberately. i'm acting often from a detached part of my consciousness.
it was tough when my children got hurt from this. now, on my own, with great beloved ones for virtual support on daily basis, (+forum4…) it's no big deal anymore, particularly when i seem to see the end.
this days sabotage is seldom necessary - people just flinch away. Which thankfully saves me the bother.
if mr jojola can provide protection, why dont you seek his protection to avoid things keeping you down.
Joel Jojola, as a medicin man of his tribe*, can provide protection for vision seekers under his guidance (within the powerful oma h field of his tribe, the Apache** ) (when procedure is pure and strict enough) for the place and period they are questing, to assist them in receiving their vision clear and bright.
it's not that he can fight my fights for me, or that i would have asked him to.
One – or, well – let's do this DJ talk in appropriate DJ jargon –
a warrior can only act out of his own personal motives*** . and only us, "the privileged", have the adequate personal motives to fight in order to recover the sweetness of life and the heart of the path.
No one can do that from philanthropic motives. philanthropists would crumble under the pressure.
and if he can somehow magically provide protection from some sort of weird paranormal oppression, why cant you ?
I can – to some extent, in some circumstances.
But there are times when it is wise to hide under someone else's apron.
not that I took the vision quest as an excuse for hiding under an apron…
I needed a vision badly.
This was just when I announced that I am carrying sort of explosive belt and will explode the whole creation unless a certain threat will be removed.
I stated I'll decide finally whether I'll be ready to do it AFTER receiving the vision I was about to quest.
In order to have the confidence about my right to do such a thing, and the courage - to become the biggest ever serial killer in history/mytology… to be ready to kill every single leaving being…
I needed a vision.
what can he do that you cant.
Recruit his alleys to assist my vision.
at that moment it was tough to find assistance, when so many Strong "they"(Als?) were… against it.
if "they" are stopping you from something as you say, why cant jojola stop them,
he didn't volunteer.
or why cant you.
Me – I am very strong Indian woman… but I'm no match to – to what? well... there must be something I'm no match to… or must it?
how much does joel charge to protect.
Again: he doesn't charge to protect – it's not a mafia body guard deal…
He does charge for the vision – 700 nis total it was. 4 days including food (2 meals for us vision seekers… we got only one – some arrived late and Joel decided to cancel the meal and get us on the mountain before sunset. We were late because a train (mine) was canceled due to an accident on the railway, with no saying when the next train go, I took a taxi, met my ride nearly in time, then we waited another hour for 2 girls who were too on the canceled train… next train left on schedule.)
Even in an Indian tribe medicine men got paid – what I know is again from "Black Elk Speaks" – black elk's report of his first curing job as a medicine man. He said the father of the sick boy he cured gave him a good horse to express his gratitude, but he would do it anyway.
even a shaman needs money, what with flights to be available in other countries.
`` ``` `
while i agree people could achieve things as an group that could not be achieved by an indivdual, i dont really like the thought that and group or circle is required.
I meant required for causing a vision come true – not for viewing a vision. Isn't it what I said? Lets' see:
you can't perform the edit: accomplish a vision unless you have a circle -
Well – I'm not sure about the correct English wording here - edited to try clear it, as yu see - "grounding" seems good choice.
anyway my opinion in this case is based not directly on Saraf knowledge, but on the medicine man who said something to that effect to Black Elk when he got severely sick, at age 18 if I remember correctly, after having a vision at age 8 which he kept secret, assuming no one would believe an 8 years old, missed some opportunities to act (an intimate meeting with his cousin Crazy Horse) , until he got sick and nearly died. Then his parents sent him to that medicine man, who, hearing his secret, prescribed a ceremony to act out Black Elk's vision, explaining to him that the first step to fulfill a vision is to perform it in front of the people.
Examining it again:
This would be obviously the most efficient strategy when one acts inside such as the above-mentioned omah field.
But when one is, say, captive… or, just lives in mixed environment… he sure should keep his vision secret.
Judging by the (then) future of the Lakota tribe, namely the ghost dance&brass army of death, their omah field was no doubt broken into.
Was this the reason Black Elk refused to share his vision in the first place?
Was the publication actually what sent it astray?
Whatever – I accept your experience based correction:
a person not being able to have an vision without the tribe or acceptance and support is ridiculous.
True.
But having a vision is the easy part… causing it to be fulfilled is another thing.
Though IMO a valid tribe is still essential – though not necessarily in the present, i.e. the time the visionary receives his vision\act on it.
Of course,
[visionary+supportive tribe's]power>[visionary's power]
But there are other components to victory then sheer SIZE of a power.
an individual could achieve plenty on their own.
Some rare individuals actually did.
with modern systems it seems like something that benefits the guru or leader of the group the most.
Your modern systems are old systems corrupted by penetration of hated ones.
If someone manages tobe accepted, faking true motives and whatever - they can, as a virus, endorse the tribe into their own production line.
Yah watayah.****
yea, fasting is strong - as is lack of sleep.
i see green luminous shade to the letters sometimes.
first time i told myself "im dreaming! it is dreaming!"
but it never went any further.
i dances once - what to do with it? was so dissapointed to recieve: nothing.
so nothing i never did.
*this is my opinion, according to my own knowledge. Joel, though, when I asked him, few years ago, weather he is a medicine man or a chief, refused to name a title, said something to the effect of just somebody. I guess he has his reasons. is aware of the problematicalness of the partly null tribal procedures? is the way he works with non-tribe members evoke disapproval? I don't know, I just can
see that anyway he is still operating effectivly.
** Which is a severe weak point of his system by now, a sever security risk. He doesn't work within the Apache anymore – I am no Apache, hardly any of the others at the vision quest he performs in this country are. He doesn’t perform his sacred work within a multi-functional community that tough Survival keeps fit and uncorrupt. Well – Joel (unlike Kurt) does check and approve (or dis-) of each participant personally, though he doesn't make a big deal out of this. and a seer would know at first glance who deserves to be accepted to his tribe and who does not – and at emergency can skip the procedures and accept a stranger under live fire, say, during a fight. This happened before. But… this way, Joel himself lacks the protection of an active tribal omah field. Which leaves some gaps for enemies to crawl in, and sure enough they do.
*** "personal motives" are love for beloved-ones. Individually. greed or fear are not. in an opened- tamahtufahed world, anyone would
see the possible results of such motivations – and they are always, by definition, destructive for one's own beloved - sweatness of life – heart of the path – evolution. Thus no one in his right mind would act from such motives. there are other decent motives – like hunger, one's own; but non is strong enough to enable elaborate team work as is the winning factor of our warriorship.
**** A magical chant/formula to say when facing some particular horrific horror, expressing appreciation (in case this already happened) or intent/belief/trust that yah will use the momentum – the motive? To create as a result great, evolutionary change. rough translation: O the misfortunes/horrors/wonders/miracles of fate!
